this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2026
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[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

No, I am not misunderstanding. There are a number of exceptions: hotel restaurants, bartenders, minors, students, people in Montana working for a "business not covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act with gross annual sales of $110,000 or less." That last one you're only guaranteed $4.00 an hour.

That's why I linked the table.

That bit you quoted does not apply to all situations, nor does it reflect this provision at the bottom:

Some states set subminimum rates for minors and/or students or exempt them from coverage or have a training wage for new hires. ...Such differential provisions are not displayed in this table.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (2 children)

There are a number of exceptions: hotel restaurants, bartenders, minors, students

That is incorrect all of these employees are subject to the Fair Labor Standard act. Everything previously stated applies.

business not covered by the Fair Labor Standards Act with gross annual sales of $110,000 or less

So that's an interesting one, because Montana is even stricter than the what is laid out as an exemption federally. Which is a buisnesses that makes less than 500,000. But those buisnesses also cannot engage in Interstate Commerce per federal law. In the modern world it is nearly impossible to have a buisness making any amount money that does not engage in some form of Interstate Commerce. So functionally that exemption is meaningless.

You did skip a few types of employees that are actually exempt like movie theater employees. Originally they were exempted from overtime and federal minimum wage provision of the FLSA. However, this has since been changed and now they are only exempt from overtime regulations.

Now to your last part which is the crux of your misunderstanding

Some states set subminimum rates for minors and/or students or exempt them from coverage or have a training wage for new hires. ...Such differential provisions are not displayed in this table.

This only applies to the wage they receive before tips. Still per federal law they must make at least $7.25 an hour after tips.

What this paragraph is saying is that a state may have a minimum tipped wage of $4.00 per hour, but a provision for students that sets it to $3.00 per hour. The table does not reflect this.

An individual state law cannot supersede federal law. So these employees still must make a minimum of $7.25 an hour. That is base tipped minimum wage plus tips. If the minimum wage, be it 3 or 4 dollars to use the example, and the person's tips add up to less than 7.25 an hour then the buisnesses must cover the difference. Unless the buisness is exempt, which is functionally impossible for a restaurant.

This is all to say yes, all servers do indeed make at least the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. If they are not making at least that they should contact the department of labor for unpaid wages.

[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Just in case you missed it: (emphases mine)

Which employers may use the youth minimum wage?

All employers covered by the FLSA may pay eligible employees the youth minimum wage, unless prohibited by State or local law. Where a State or local law requires payment of a minimum wage higher than $4.25 an hour and makes no exception for employees under age 20, the higher State or local minimum wage standard would apply.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I did indeed miss that one, so you got 1 out of 4

[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Almost everything you said was error filled, and you provided no material proofs for it, because you can't: links don't exist for what you pull out of your ass.

But it's what you said it in defense of that is truly shitty. No surprise, then, that it requires lies to defend.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

No lie was told, everything can be found through the links you provided if you take the time to click through the DoL website some more instead of cherry picking.

At least I've been able to admit my mistakes instead of a stubborn refusal.

Also can you stop trying to assign a false moral stance on the issue to my statements? Everyone deserves a living wage, I'm just stating what federal law says for tipped servers.

[–] ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

You wrote,

Which is a buisnesses that makes less than 500,000. But those buisnesses also cannot engage in Interstate Commerce per federal law. In the modern world it is nearly impossible to have a buisness making any amount money that does not engage in some form of Interstate Commerce. So functionally that exemption is meaningless.

I am well aware of what that means. I think that you are not. Check out what the DoL has to say about businesses and individuals not covered by FLSA: there are plenty of businesses that do not meet the standards but have employees that do, for example.

You are really reaching when you insist -- incorrectly -- that Montana's exception has no real world meaning. I assure you that exception was very specifically placed in the law for a real world business' benefit, and that that business had pull in the state capitol or it would not have been added, just as the FLSA itself provides for those exceptions to be made by the states.

If you can't be bothered to educate yourself on what "interstate commerce" means in the federal legal sense, that's fine by me because I've provided links for all of my assertions, unlike you: people can read them for themselves.

The FLSA has carve outs for various kinds of employees, and while minors are covered, they are not covered as adults are:

The 1996 Amendments to the FLSA allow employers to pay a youth minimum wage of not less than $4.25 an hour to employees who are under 20 years of age during the first 90 consecutive calendar days after initial employment. The law contains certain protections for employees that prohibit employers from displacing any employee in order to hire someone at the youth minimum wage. -- from the DoL page linked below

In addition, only a handful of states actually ban subminimum pay for minors, requiring by law full minimum wage. You wrote,

An individual state law cannot supersede federal law.

That is where you are flat out wrong. When it comes to minors and other special categories of workers, they can and do.

Here's the DoL page on that, you should read it:

Fact Sheet #32: Youth Minimum Wage - Fair Labor Standards Act

Here's another page that lays out what that means for tipped minors. Quoting from further down in the page:

State law prevails: If state law is more restrictive than federal (higher youth wage or no youth wage), you must follow state law.

Again, that's why I linked the table. It's a complex maze of laws and conditions. And I didn't miss this. You wrote,

You did skip a few types of employees that are actually exempt like movie theater employees.

That's because I did not expect someone to fight so hard, with such incorrect and easily disproved assumptions, in defense of such a shitty principle: not paying servers a living wage.

[–] arrow74@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago

You are really reaching when you insist -- incorrectly

Honestly nothing you said made any sense there. You expect me to believe buisnesses lobbied the state of Montana to make a law that is more strict than the federal law? Kind of a silly assumption.

If you can't be bothered to educate yourself on what "interstate commerce" means in the federal legal sense, that's fine by me because I've provided links for all of my assertions, unlike you: people can read them for themselves.

You can just admit you have no idea what interstate commerce is. The DoL defines that too, dig through your own sources a touch more.

I will concede I was mistaken on youth minimum wage. You got 1 out of 4 groups you identified correct. And before you bring up "students" that applies to students enrolled in a vocational program. Not someone that is a student working at another place of buisness. The other 2 you mentioned are not even mentioned by your own sources again.

But then you said

That is where you are flat out wrong. When it comes to minors and other special categories of workers, they can and do.

State law cannot supersede federal law. The federal law specifies that youths may be paid 4.25 and hour. I was mistaken there, but that has no impact on the Supremecy Clause of the constitution. A state cannot decide to set the wage for those employees lower than provided by federal law, which was the whole point anyway. I never should have allowed myself to get so far drawn off topic, but here we are.

in defense of such a shitty principle: not paying servers a living wage.

That's complete fantasy and not something I said nor implied.