this post was submitted on 13 Mar 2026
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Memes of Production
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A 15th century Catholic could debate how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, but not whether Jupiter had moons. Diversity within a walled garden does not remove the walls, and as long as narratives are not in active conflict with the bounds set by the larger state they are tolerated.
If you do not condemn a specific genocide and the specific system that produced it, then you approve of genocide. As long as ML communities systematically support those that approve of genocide and genocidal regimes and condemn those that condemn genocide, ML approves genocide.
I don't think Mao said to create a stock market, chief. Why do you think a stock market where legal entities that can hold capital can trade partial ownership in corporations that own the means of production while employing workers who have no representation within this system (except as petit bourgeois owners of small amounts of capital savings) could reasonably be considered communist?
I don't believe any of the ML movements have been involved in a genocide nor approved a genocide. If you are referring to China not condemning Israel, well, you got me there.
Mao did not say to create a stock market. He said to collaborate with the national bourgeoisie. That's not communism. Under communism, there is no national bourgeoisie to collaborate with. Communism, as a state of existence, is classless.
So China has literally never been communist as a state of existence. China has been led by a communist party. That doesn't mean they have communism. It means they are building communism.
China is going through the capitalist mode of production. Just like every single industrial nation has done. We don't know of any other way to industrialize. One of the functions industrialization needs is the efficient allocation of resources. The stock market is a tool to make that happen. It's also a way to participate in and gather resource flows from imperialist countries in Chinese currency, which has important effects in anti-imperialism at the commanding heights of world economic systems.
You know how we know that China's industrialization process is run by communists and not capitalists? Because the industrial revolution impoverished millions in the West, but in China it lifted 800M out of abject poverty. China is a state with a communist party leading it through the capitalist mode of production to develop the productive forces of the economy. This is pretty straightforward stuff. It's only confusing if you're dogmatic about it and can't figure out why $EVIL_thing is present in a society that purports to be $GOOD_thing. Moral thinking will always confuse things. Abandon moral thinking, and it all makes much more sense
We agree entirely. Anyone who expects China to be good or to try to become good is going to be confused by reality. China will develop according to the material conditions it operates under. Since those conditions are capitalism, it would be foolish moralism to expect them to do the good thing in spite of their structural incentives, so they will remain capitalist indefinitely.
Oh hey you're going to No True Scotsman me. Anyway: Holodomor, Cambodia, Ethiopian Red Terror, Uyghurs.
Holy capitalist realism, batman. Communism has also never been to the moon, are you going to use capitalism to get there too? Neither has it ever solved climate change, are you going to use capitalism to do that too? If all you're going to do is ape capitalism because "it's the one that works", you're just a capitalist with extra steps.
Sadly, we don't know any other way to be a world hegemon other than through capitalist imperialism...
I guess the USA was run by communists too because poverty decreased massively from 1870 to 1970.
Strange, though, the US had a stock market during its industrial revolution, while China is only introducing the stock market after it has already lifted those 800M out of poverty. Somehow China managed to do all that without ever needing a stock market. Almost as if an economy can industrialize perfectly well without one and the reason for adopting a stock market has nothing to do with efficient industrialization...
Anyway, coming back to moralism, I'm sorry, but I do want my society to be good. I understand that a society being good doesn't make sense on its own, that's why anarchocommunism has prefiguration. We need to shape the material conditions to produce good things if we want good things, which we do. Having capital owners pinky swear to make communism real after the next fiscal quarter isn't going to do it.