Don't know what to tell you, we keep getting libs with lib takes from that instance, and we have no toleration of liberalism here, not at this late date

[–] etsy@hexbear.net 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

ironically reactionary

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

To be fair it would be infinitely more ironic for us to be tolerant of people who want to see us and the planet die for the sake of markets

[–] etsy@hexbear.net 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

absolutely, if this were real life. unfortunately you can't do anything materially productive online other than education, which is only possible for the tolerant.

especially when it ends up just being incorrectly directed defensiveness rather than any real or meaningful criticism.

the unfortunate reality is the overwhelming majority of the opposition aren't this evil, morally corrupt organized group, but instead just victims of ever declining education standards, material conditions, and manipulation via propaganda. you can't punish people for being victims, although that isn't to say you shouldn't rehabilitate to avoid further harm. idk I'm tangenting atp

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

You've made one crucial error, you're assuming people open to our political thought are ideological liberals and that the majority of the population are the same

They are not, the average person is idiosyncratic without any firm commitment to ideology beyond unconscious conditioning, those people are not liberals and are open to persuasion and that doesn't require tolerance of liberalism

Ideological liberals on the other hand are not persuadable, they are committed to the project of advancing capitalism and will kill me and you for a paycheck

There is no advantage to our position in pretending liberalism holds any truths which is what toleration would require

They do not tolerate our worldview and seek to undermine it at every level of society from the lowest internet forum to the halls of congress, we have to do the same to overcome that chilling effect

[–] etsy@hexbear.net 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

perhaps we have different definitions of tolerance here. by tolerance, I don't mean coexistence, I mean not demonizing and considering irredeemable. I mean reeducation camps not execution. I mean recognizing the situationalism and contextualism of our current political climate and having some empathy.

for the record, I never have thought people are ideologically consistent. even here, I actively see political scatter plots going off.

[–] Juice@midwest.social 2 points 3 days ago

Probably an pointless gesture, but. Completely different context, but there's some nuggets that might be applicable to the zero tolerance posture. Also it's a fucking classic, can't read it enough!

I don't really operate under the zero tolerance mandate, personally and in my organizing I feel like I have to tolerate a great deal of liberalism. Mamdani (only mentioned cuz he's features in the meme and generally regarded positively in this post thread) was backed by NYC-DSA, and that chapter is very much on the right of the org, moderate "Democratic party realignment" advocates, but still very effective, active, organized comrades. We struggle against that tendency of DSA every day, literally spent about an hour talking to a comrade about it earlier. In the meantime, tons of new people are joining the org, many have some kooky ideas and wrongheadedness. To me i need to try and educate, thats the nature of my work and i seem to have a knack for it. Liberalism cant be combatted as an individual ideology, only as a structural manifestation of bourgeois opportunism (incidentally another major insight of Lenin's LWC.)

OTOH, Im not involved in the concerted efforts keeping your instance a safe place. Seems like there's a vicious campaign against your instance that is just completely undeserved. I commend the zero tolerance for racism, transphobia, all forms of chauvinism; and those things def go hand in hand with liberalism.

It's a hard problem. I hope I'm not coming off preachy just sharing my experience. And like you said, this historical phase will sort us out sooner rather than later, one way or the other.