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Inside Iran’s protests: ‘Either we overthrow the regime, or we are destroyed. We have nothing left to lose.’
(www.independent.co.uk)
this post was submitted on 17 Jan 2026
403 points (97.4% liked)
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Again. You have established as fact something that is not fact. I am saying that regardless of their will, their will is not going to win the day but instead either USA's will or the current Iranian government's will is going to win the day. The people will either defeat their government and create the conditions for the USA to subvert the will of the people or the people will not defeat their government. Those are the two options available based on the facts on the ground.
I cannot speak against the will of the Iranian people because no one knows the will of the Iranian people right now. There are different factions on the ground protesting and counter protesting and there are foreign governments distorting all of the information about who is protesting, how many are protesting, what their demands are, what they want, and what they're doing.
You are stating as fact that the will of the Iranian people is regime change when it is clear that there is not one single will of the Iranian people.
And while you claim to want to support the will of the Iranian people, you have no problem with supporting actions that will absolutely subvert the will of the Iranian people by subjugating them to foreign governments.
It's not funny. It's sick and it's sad.
I'm just quoting you. You said that even in the situation where their will was to overthrow the government you wouldn't support them.
You said that you are literally against their will happening...
No. I said IF it was their will I would still be against it because it would be contradictory, but YOU are the one claiming to know definitively what their will is and that therefore I am against it. I do not claim to know the minds of all Iranians like you do. The limited evidence I have access to is that the popular will is divided among several factions and understanding the factions at this distance is almost impossible given the direct and indirect foreign interference at all levels.
My statement is an assessment of the state of the game. IF it were the will of a super majority if Iranians to overthrow their government, THEN I would not support it because my assessment of the state of the game is that IF the government is overthrown THEN the USA will subvert the will of the Iranian people. It is structurally contradictory.
I think the Iranian people understand this. I hope they do. You clearly don't
I don't think there's been any confusion about that. You wouldn't and don't support the people's will.
Why are you dismissing the will of millions of Iranians who don't want regime change? Why are you such a chauvinist that you think you speak for all Iranians?
I mean I was talking about the same hypothetical as you were. You wouldn't support the will of the people in a situation where it was to take down the theocracy and I would. I wouldn't be speaking for anyone, just supporting their own will in that situation.
Great, so in a hypothetical, you can feel morally superior to me. I'm OK with that.
It's a position you yourself took, not sure why you are upset with me
Because you're arguing a counterfactual to signal virtues instead of actually engaging in the analysis of the real world.
What if the Iranian people don't agree with your view of the "real world" and what they should do, according to you?
Stop trying to reduce to this personal ethic. "The Iranian people" are not a monolith. Some of them agree with this view of the world, others don't. They will manage it themselves.
You gotta stop imagining that everything is about moral correctness. The reason it matters what Yanks think about what other people should do isn't because it's a moral question but a practical one - Yanks will take their personal beliefs and then put 250k tons of depleted uranium bombs behind it.
When I say I don't support undermining Iranian national security, I am not saying that I would bomb civilians the way the US does when it says it doesn't support something. I don't think a foreign military should intervene to impose its view on the world.
But I for damn sure would engage in dialog and discourse about the topic and support my position with reasoning, history, and evidence.
Luckily I don't have to because there are millions of Iranians already having that discussion with a much better grip on the situation than I have.
My role in this discourse here is to argue with Western liberals and disabuse them of their bullshit moral superiorty driven by the empire's propaganda machine so they stop supporting the empire's agenda.
It seems you've just chosen a position with very little actual care for what the Iranian people want themself. Even going as far as you'd oppose them in their will if it doesn't align with what you think is best for them.
And it seems like you're incapable of actually having a conversation about this topic.
I don't think there's been much conversation tbh. You've just reiterated the same position again and again, even though we both understood what you said.