this post was submitted on 29 Dec 2025
62 points (95.6% liked)

Slop.

760 readers
645 users here now

For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No bigotry of any kind, including ironic bigotry.

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target federated instances' admins or moderators.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

2025-22-08: Due to a (suspected .ml) troll spamming the comment section, you'll now need to sort the comments by "Top" to see the actual comments from users on this post.

Good job everyone blocking and boycotting .ml! It's having an effect, users are noticing and MAUs on their comms are falling!

And for anyone asking "Why are we boycotting/blocking lemmy.ml?" Here's a quick recap:

Lemmy.ml is an instance run by admins who are hardcore tankies and will enforce their ideology on their instance through various means from allowing (and pushing it themselves) propaganda (Such as Russia being justified in some way to invade Ukraine) and known propaganda outlets (Like RT) to removing content on their instance critical of their favored authoritarian regimes such as Russia or China and even banning users for such speech or speech critical of them if it's off their instance (Just like the Reddit mods of ol!).

If it was just some random instance it would have been defederated from long ago like the rest of the "Tankie Triad" (Hexbear and Lemmygrad), but they've positioned lemmy.ml as the "flagship" instance and abused that position and influence to become large enough to keep other instances from defederating from them.

Which I believe is harmful to the Lemmy-verse's overall growth and outside reputation. I have seen it come up before on Reddit threads (and other testimonials from people who came back and tried it again) that "They tried Lemmy but it was a bunch of tankies and went back to Reddit"

I don't know about you, but I'd prefer Lemmy to not end up with the reputation for being "Tankie Central " or even worse "Voat 2.0".

So if you haven't joined the boycott yet, join today and help us foster a better healthier Lemmy-verse!

You can take a look around here on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for documentation of it or checkout this list of curated documentation

Noteworthy Selection

Full collection list at the end

Dessalines - Head .ml admin - Head Lemmy Dev

"Slava Ukraini" is considered a "Fascist slogan" - https://lemmy.world/post/36065538

"NK is actually good, and anything counter to that is Western LIES" - https://lemmy.world/post/31595035

"The BBC is not a credible news source" - https://lemmy.world/post/35824465

Showing support for Ukraine on .ml is worthy of a site ban - https://lemmy.world/post/32775563

Open declaration of support for Russia - https://lemmy.world/post/27352415

"Don't worry guys, the Uyghur Genocide was REALLY just birth control! - https://lemmy.world/post/30580167

Censoring criticism of China while allowing fellow "in-crowd" user "concentration camps were just reeducation camps and weren't that bad" misinfo to remain - https://lemmy.world/post/26985447

Censoring when users call out propaganda - https://lemmy.world/post/32776038 | https://lemmy.world/post/33416433 | https://lemmy.world/post/34051329 | https://lemmy.world/post/35919522

Discussing winnie the pooh and/or the negatives of china is a 30 day ban - https://lemmy.world/post/35374967

Davel - .ml admin

Spreading anti-ukraine Russian propaganda - https://lemmy.world/post/34655572

General negative sentiment to other instances who haven't "seen the way" yet - https://lemmy.world/post/27426510

"See! nobody died IN Tiananmen Square, just AROUND it, so it doesn't count!!" - https://lemmy.world/post/30673342

Response to a valid report of "NK is actually good" as propaganda/misinfo https://lemmy.world/post/32627834

Removal of a credible article that was on the Uyghur genocide - https://lemmy.world/post/33205310

It's totally fine when Russia kills woman and children, war is war after all - https://lemmy.world/post/33224299

Nutomic - 2nd in command Lemmy Dev

Their continued transphobia - https://lemmy.world/post/29222558

General Tankie user behaviour

"Propaganda is good actually" - https://lemmy.world/post/36162233

"The China censorship tool isnt actually censorship! And if it is, it's actually a good thing a state has that much power!" https://lemmy.world/post/30010789

Rooting for Russia in the Russia-Ukraine war https://lemmy.world/post/29274763

Spreading Russia talking points like the Ukraine invasion just being a "negotiating tactic" https://lemmy.world/post/27012640

Biden is worse than Trump - https://lemmy.world/post/33631617

Uyghur Genocide denialism - https://lemmy.world/post/33873969

Full Collection

Evidence of bans, censorship and bias to push their 'ideology'

https://lemmy.world/post/34395059

https://lemmy.world/post/32720369

https://lemmy.world/post/32298242

https://lemmy.world/post/32471440

https://lemmy.world/post/35919522

https://lemmy.world/post/32292143

https://lemmy.world/post/35254858

https://lemmy.world/post/32222856

https://lemmy.world/post/32426343

https://lemmy.world/post/32058315

https://lemmy.world/post/35919814

https://lemmy.world/post/32775892

https://lemmy.world/post/33554899

https://lemmy.world/post/33194656

https://lemmy.world/post/34502019

https://lemmy.world/post/34502777

https://lemmy.world/post/34503244

https://lemmy.world/post/35919218

https://lemmy.world/post/36120253

https://lemmy.world/post/36120386

https://lemmy.world/post/32825174

https://lemmy.world/post/32426884

https://lemmy.world/post/32191006

https://lemmy.world/post/32720652

https://lemmy.world/post/32676095

https://lemmy.world/post/32298242

https://lemmy.world/post/32292143

https://lemmy.world/post/32221990

https://lemmy.world/post/32222278

https://lemmy.world/post/32222991

https://lemmy.world/post/32223697

https://lemmy.world/post/32224698

https://lemmy.world/post/32425984

https://lemmy.world/post/31569892

https://lemmy.world/post/31368129

https://lemmy.world/post/31329952

https://lemmy.world/post/31596159

https://lemmy.world/post/30665418

https://lemmy.world/post/30876228

https://lemmy.world/post/31090903

https://lemmy.world/post/31329952

https://lemmy.world/post/31368129

https://lemmy.world/post/29490804

https://lemmy.world/post/29507466

https://lemmy.world/post/29878102

https://lemmy.world/post/29980157

https://lemm.ee/post/65494823

https://lemmy.world/post/28480760

https://lemmy.world/post/28481615

https://lemmy.world/post/28482147

https://lemmy.world/post/28480936

https://lemmy.world/post/28482273

https://lemmy.world/post/28481272

https://lemmy.world/post/28481064

https://lemmy.world/post/27674360

https://lemmy.world/post/27674117

https://lemmy.world/post/27673934

https://lemmy.world/post/27673724

https://lemmy.world/post/27577337

https://lemmy.world/post/27378634

https://lemmy.world/post/27346630

https://lemmy.world/post/27341283

https://lemmy.world/post/27288224

https://lemmy.world/post/27156418

https://lemmy.world/post/27054157

https://lemmy.world/post/27008261

Allowing known propaganda outlets, altered headlines and general misinfo tactics

https://lemmy.world/post/32764202

https://lemmy.world/post/32323822

https://lemmy.world/post/32283425

https://lemmy.world/post/32289824

https://lemmy.world/post/32337368

https://lemmy.world/post/30843744

https://lemmy.world/post/28275465

https://lemmy.world/post/27428838

https://lemmy.world/post/27416097

https://lemmy.world/post/27314050

https://lemmy.world/post/27288953


Update 6/1/2025 - adding additional links since original post

Update 6/14/2025 - adding additional links since last edit

Update 6/19/2025 - adding additional links since last edit

Update 6/30/2025 - adding additional links since last edit

Update 7/03/2025 - adding additional links since last edit/formatting changes

Update 7/09/2025 - adding additional links since last edit

Update 8/13/2025 - adding additional links since last edit/formatting changes

Update 9/20/2025 - adding additional links since last edit

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Here's one reason to pick one over another: Self-Consistency. In the same way as in math, a set of axioms that is internally consistent is preferable.

I should have included that, since my point isn't that literally any collection of stipulations is equal but that any of the dozens of moral systems you can point to historically that are all self-consistent but strongly contradict each other, but we have no way besides preference of asserting one over the other. That is my main point and I regard the rest of my response below as basically a waste of time, but here I am anyway:

But of course there's also a category problem, because we need a mathematical system that doesn't explode in order to make calculations, and some calculations are correct and some are incorrect, and this can be observed in our attempts to apply them to real systems. Morality demands itself, but there is no external problem that it is the necessary solution for, so logical explosion is not actually a problem for it in any manner but rhetoric. So my initial claim is right, but it's rhetorically very unsatisfying and not very important, so I'm happy to drop it in favor of the concession in the previous paragraph.

If it's not, feel free to clarify. You seemed to make a bunch of claims about morality then say "math isn't like that".

I did clarify. I did make claims about morality and then say that math isn't like that, but you misrepresented the claims. I therefore reprinted my claims, which were not the same as what you said.

I'm sorry if I remain unconvinced that morality is fundamentally different from math, but it sounds like you're conflating math and science. I dont know if it's generally accepted that math is empirically derived,

We don't have access to a platonic world of ideas. Math either originally came from observation or it's built into our brains (which would still make our connection to it a product of the material world via mutation and natural selection). Now that we have formalized systems, obviously we don't do math on that basis except for teaching children (i.e. they sure seem to learn about it observationally in order to build abstract systems in their minds).

or what sort of experiments discovered the exponent.

I never said anything about experimentation, that is a cartoonish misrepresentation of what I said. I said empirical observation. For example, to the best of my knowledge, the first use of exponents was describing the surface area of a square with sides of the length X, or the volume of a cube with sides of the length X, i.e. squaring and cubing, based on practical and observable issues in the physical world. If you have a group of people arranged into rows of five and columns of 8, there will always be 40 people, etc. If you need to tile the floor and it has these dimensions, it needs this much tile. If you need to fill in a wall, etc.

Imaginary numbers?

This is why I said "most math" a couple of comments ago. To the best of my understanding -- and while I definitely know a good amount about formal logic (which I would be inclined to say is part of our brains, if you're wondering), which is a type of algebra, I'm not as knowledgeable about quantitative systems -- imaginary numbers don't exist just because some mathematicians dreamed them up, but because mathematicians have come to the conclusion that their existence is necessitated by existing systems that are grounded in other things, and help us to model and understand various real phenomena. They are not crudely observable the way numbers on the number line are, but they exist in the properties of real, physical systems. If this were not the case, they would be regarded as much more trivial than they are (but in our world, they are quite important).

[–] boboblaw@hexbear.net 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Math either originally came from observation or it's built into our brain

Fair enough. Thank you for elaborating.

My initial point was that there's more than one plausible explanation. I am ultimately undecided, I don't understand the sheer certainty some people seem to have.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 3 points 1 week ago

Yeah, my intention is not to have a definitive thesis on the ontology of mathematics, but just to say that it's part of material reality and that is inextricably the basis of our relationship with it and our ability to judge it, while morality does not have that reference point.