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The reason I've heard they are doing it so they can pump out dialoge faster and they don't have to let the voice actors come in for every line whenever they add a new map with new way points for example.
If its purely for the sake of velocity, than the performers should be compensated the same as if they were in studio. This is a slippery slope.
I understand that this would be costly. But imho this isn't a good reason. There is imo only two ethic ways to solve this kind of problem:
*: As I said, Embark is a big company, they made millions of dollars. They can afford it. It is absurd to me to allow such a big structure to "cut costs" by removing the human factors.
Do you know the specifics of their contracts with the VA-s? Are you certain they're not paying the VA-s for using their voice (even if it is AI generated)? What is the ethical dilemma if VA-s are getting paid whenever a new voiceline is created?
But are they also getting paid after the fact? Let's say $50 any time a new voiceline is added to the game using their voice. Because Embark is using a tool to do the work someone would've done manually, they would've had to pay the person otherwise so I think a royalty-like payment any time the VA voice is used is completely fair. Otherwise it becomes what people are complaining about, that they're effectively paying a one time fee for the VA voice and then use it for free for forever.
Call me crazy but I think people getting cheated out of the fruits of their labor, even if they themselves might've signed their it away, should be criticized.
I don't know what kind of work you do but let's say your work requires you to log into some kind a system that somehow knows to track the work you do. Now imagine you start your work and your co-worker logs themselves in your place. You do the labor, they get the benefit. Are you being cheated?
The VA would do that labor if there was no TTS with their voice as a model. The VA labor goes into that model because it is their voice. They do the labor but someone else benefits from it? Are they not being cheated?
And final thought experiment. If the VA-s owned the TTS system and Embark asks for a new voiceline. Are the VA-s supposed to give that new voiceline away for free just because some TTS system generated it? Wouldn't Embark cheat them out their pay if they said "You made it for free so we should be able to use it for free."?
The intellectual bankruptcy comes from you because instead of actually thinking about the situation you hide behind the "But they agreed to it" argument. People also agreed with indenture servitude, doesn't mean it's acceptable.
Apparently you do think that indentured servitude, at least to the extent where the person agrees to step into servitude, is completely fine. After all they agreed to the contract.
Since you decided to ignore my argument all I can do is attack your stupid argument, which is that the signed contract is all that matters. I'm attacking it by stating you don't have a problem with indentured servitude as long the servant accepts the contract. That is not the same thing as stating VA work is somehow indentured servitude, please be capable of telling the difference here. If the agreement is all that matters then you have to be okay with indentured servitude in the manner I originally described.
The irony of calling someone a zealot who can't be wrong, and then straight up ignoring all criticism of your argument. You are right, there is no point in arguing with someone like you.
Pretty zealous of you to dictate what is or isn't a valid argument. If my argument is so wrong why not instantly debunk it instead of playing this stupid ring around the Rosie?
We can play the same game if you want. Your argument that they signed the contract is not a valid argument because I think it's utterly stupid and I shouldn't be addressing it in the first place. Come back with a real argument.
If you had bothered to read ANYTHING I SAID you'd know that was not my argument.
I made 3 points at the start, all of which you just ignored and said they signed a contract so nothing else matters.
You're the bigger narcissist here. You're literally making up statement I did not make to have a point to argue against. You can't bother to read anything I say (or alternatively you can't read, doesn't really matter to me which it is). You act high and mighty every chance you get.
So I'm not going to address anything else because talking to you is pointless. You're arguing with a wall because I don't even need to be here. You're not going to read what I say, you're going to make up arguments I never made, you argue your own made up arguments to be right and then call me stupid for having your make-belief arguments. You are the wall you're arguing with.
The fact that you think that's advice to me just shows how little you actually care about my point of view. Get out of here you narcissist.
It's pretty fucking ironic of you to talk about "individuals right to self-determination is sacrosanct" while you zealously disrespect my beliefs and push your own onto me. Who would've thunk a narcissist like you is also a hypocrite.
You don't even know what my point is because you don't care. I never said anything about oppressing others. If anyone is oppressing anyone it's you oppressing me.
Marketing this as "text-to-speech" is oversimplyfying at best, dishonest at worst imho. People need to work, we can't blame the voice actors. But in the end they still are working against themselves/their peers.
TTS has existed for decades, machine learning for less than 20 years, genAI as we know it for less than 5.
Those 3 things are not the same thing. Yes the genAI they used can be included as a TTS because it is one. But only in function.
You are playing on words here. Most people know TTS as a crappy old thing, here this is something way more advanced.
Even if it was the same thing to begin with. I wouldn't be like a company using a simple TTS capable of recreating the voice of a voice actor I like without paying them the same as if the company hired them.
I don't know the details. And I agree that if every line generated with their voice is paid (at least partially) I don't see as big of a problem as I stated.
But call me cynical: I don't think they were paid for generated voice lines. I would gladly be corrected on this matter though.
That was the case with The Finals (Embark's previous game) according to testimony by the team, and they are using the same development practices here.
I'm not here to argue with you. I dont mind them using Ai. They are upfront about it. You should do whatever you think is the right thing.
Sorry if I sounded angry or something. My goal is to debate around this subject I feel passionate about. I'm not really sure I would call all of this "being upfront" but that may be another subject.
I'm not an English native, so my words could be harsher that it should. Sorry again.
And thank you for answering and participating about the whole thing. No hard feelings I hope!
It seems to me you are playing with words. Pilaging all internet resources to create and profit on genAI isn't unethical to you?
Independent artists have found evidence that their work has been scraped to train most of big genAI tools for years now. That's A-OK for you?
don't feed the troll they say...