this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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One thing we can honestly respect the military in america for, is the ability to do some of the most insane things a president or someone with military control in the administration. They might not want to do it, they might feel there are better things to fight for, they may have heavy regret signing and volunteering for the military knowing who the president is. But they do it anyways.

You may not agree with what the military does, but you have to respect them for that reason alone, above all else. The unfortunate fact is that it is wasting tons of their time and in some cases, wasting their lives.

Which makes me ask, after many attempts for Trump to sick the military onto the American people who fund them and are to be protected by. How will they be after it is all said and done? Because I cannot see a solid reason as to why anyone would volunteer for the military, after the amount of power-tripping we've seen demonstrated so far of them.

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[โ€“] SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 8 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago) (1 children)

When it comes to domestic use america's military is finding themselves in a bind. I don't think we've seen a president that has pushed so hard for military use in relative peacetime. It's coming into more and more conflict with how the military has been trained and the principles they are held to. I think that internally the military is taking a hard look at what they can and should do about this.

They all took oaths. Enlisted members say this

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Those regulations include the laws of war. All military members get yearly training on this. What is and isn't a combatant, what is and isn't a lawful order etc. This includes a duty and obligation to disobey illegal orders, but usually the process is to get clarification from one of their officers. An officer's oath of enlistment looks like this.

"I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. "

Note there is not a President mentioned there. The enlisted have a duty and obligation to disobey illegal orders, but officers play a key role in leading those units, and they have even greater obligations to their units. Enlisted members rejecting an order from some officersn is one thing. Officers, or many officers rejecting an order is another.

I think what we are seeing is a careful balancing act. The military is going where they are told to go, but maybe not sending as many or being as aggressive as they administration would like. Stay involved enough to not be outright fired or replaced but try to hit the brakes on this mess and internally pushing back.

Yes, the introduction of an individual, ethical "veto" came after the formation of national militaries like we know them today. There is built in tension to introduce a right to disobey into a system that otherwise demands obedience to function. It's also hard to grasp as a concept even for the better educated. It's fucked up. These days I'm thinking more and more about the adage that morale is something you need to be able to afford. And I understand every sergeant who feels like they don't have any morale money to spend when ordered, say, to fire on shipwrecked drug smugglers. You piss off your boss and before you know it you're dishonorably discharged back to the poverty stricken area you tried to get away from. Also, left-leaning liberals are a minority in a profession that practices how to kill people. There is so much gray there.

I say I understand the hypothetical sergeant in their moral life dilemma. As far as my respect is concerned, I can be totally black and white about this though.

The pessimistic take is none of this will matter because the US is moving further away from its constitutional order into a 21st century version of fascism. The military will be ridden of the morale "veto" and sworn to obey the leader no matter what. The optimistic take sees the current cult/fascistoid leadership edged out in 3-7 years and we will mostly see the homeopathic punishment I mentioned before. If we're lucky, a tightening of the rules under which circumstances and with whose authority military units of any kind can be mobilized in peacetime within the US.