this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2025
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Yes, the German Social Democrats are the only party in history to ever experience the electoral benefits described in that quote, no other party has been able to replicate the observations Engels was making in his time
And electoralism is definitely the reason Rosa was murdered by the Freikorps........WW1 and the devastating effect it had on the SPD? Never heard of it
Instead of writing silly sarcastic comments, please try your best to engage with what I actually wrote.
Who are you arguing with? I think you've entirely forgotten what we are even talking about. You're getting angry at people in your head, not me.
Who were Noske and Ebert and what did they have to do with the SPD and Rosa? Do these actions say anything about why we shouldn't be blanketly optimistic about electoralism by "socialists" and be cavalier about who we, by default, consider to be in our ranks or count as wins?
What you should be asking is how WW1 empowered Noske and Ebert and how the national question sunk the prospects of Rosa's faction, instead of imagining an unbroken thoughline from when Engels endorsed electoralism in 1895 to when Rosa lost her life, as if externalities of world historic importance didn't take precedence
lol just take your L jesus
If you're gonna start a dog pile, at least offer an argument instead of smug reddit energy
If you want to support electoralism at least support a working class party, not democrats
There is no viable working class party in the US and I support electoralism only to the extent it can normalize socialism among the masses and trigger a rupture within the Democratic Party, that can lead to the birth of a new independent working class party, cause that's the only viable route we have at the moment
That is a very long way to say vbnmw
I will wait for you to directly reply to what I say.
Which is more important to the outcome of the German revolution? WW1 and it's effects or the electoral strategies of German socialists during the 1890s-1910s?
Most Marxist scholars agree it's the particulars of WW1 and the contradictions of imperialism, you seem to think the original sin lies in the fact German socialists embraced electoralism 40s years before the revolution
I don't believe that's a tenable position and frankly strikes me as you just having a bone to pick with the very concept of elections
I guess I'll be waiting a long time, then?
I'm sorry where you just waiting for me to agree with you that being "blanketly optimistic" is ill-advised? Yeah, sure being a bloomer all the time is stupid, what a brave take
This whole time I thought you were trying to make some broader but misguided point about the historical relationship between revolution and electoralism, but apparently you just wanted to play Captain Obvious, my bad
Do you really need me to explain what I am waiting for?
Yeah go ahead and repeat this brilliant fuckin point I must've missed, I'm sure it's not that total non-sequitur you gave me about the SPD when I asked you how your sentiment isn't just defeatism
Chana your arguments aren't complex, I'm following along just fine, I've been trying to tell you that you bringing up the SPD and their role in the German revolution in response to my quote by Engels is stupid, one has nothing to do with the other, the SPD of 1895 is not the same SPD that sicced the Friekorps on Rosa in 1919
I've been responding to what you've been saying, you just don't like my answer, your premise is faulty and stating some irrelevant Wikipedia facts about WW1 SPD doesn't address my initial point that electoralism is a viable strategy in the Marxist canon
Oh dear
lmao fuckin redditor
Uh-huh
You did not respond to Chana, you deliberately sidestepped Chana's question with another question and are claiming victory by being smug, condescending, and pointing fingers and screaming "REDDITOR!!!" at anyone challenging you. Very mature.
I post an Engels quote from 1895, in response I receive a non-sequitur about the SPD during WW1, I explain multiple times WHY it's a non-sequitur and why it's irrelevant to my original point, all I get in response is snide bullshit, snark and actual condescension and I respond in kind.....end of story
Also adding exclamation marks to other people's words to claim they were "screaming" is some real disingenuous bullshit, and you want to talk about mature
Now you and the ultra larper clique can kindly fuck off, thanks
Just say you love Kamala Harris it’s not hard and truth is you probably wouldn’t have a lot of detractors
You're a larper and a dumbass, in what universe is Kamala Harris winning anything going to rupture the Democrats and lead to the birth of a new Working Class Party?
Like you're literally braindead and you don't understand politics, let alone the theory surrounding electoralism
Just admit you're a nihilist, truth is you probably wouldn’t have a lot of detractors
And Zohran will do all of that? Yeah good ok
No he won't, but more victories like his will
Victory gives socialists credibility with the working class, and credibility aids grassroots organizing, creating a virtuous cycle that leads to more victory leading to more organizing
I guess I just don't see this guy as a socialist any more than B*rnie or AOCIA are.