this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2025
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submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by TankieTanuki@hexbear.net to c/slop@hexbear.net
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[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

For reasons that I still don't understand, the commanding officer on the Nazi side wanted them to do a military parade together

If the Nazis were already using socialism as a cover, doesn't it stand to reason that this parade serves the same purpose? I guess its a moot point because as we can see it absolutely served that purpose. The real question becomes, was this the calculation at the time?

Probably hard to know. Unlikely to be any written internal records expressing this plot.

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Definitely not. Hitler made it extremely clear before the war that his "socialism" was one in complete opposition to Marx, who he said corrupted the word, and that Marxist socialism as exhibited by the Bolsheviks was essentially a Jewish plot to dominate the world.

This is why the only thing that I can think of is that the commander present there was simply trying to avoid looking weak by making the hand-off look voluntary via the parade.

The Jewish doctrine of Marxism rejects the aristocratic principle of Nature and replaces the eternal privilege of power and strength by the mass of numbers and their dead weight.

-- Mein Kampf

Bolshevism has attacked the foundations of our whole human order... its supreme principle is its internationalism... that the world as we know it must be turned upside down.

https://www.nationalists.org/library/hitler/speeches/hitler-speech-sep14-1936.html

Granted, there are some times where he spoke positively of Marxism because he didn't believe most of what he said, but I don't think he ever spoke fondly of the Bolshevik project.

Here's another speech which includes more or less the same content along with other subjects. I think it's phrased interestingly, because in some ways he poses himself as almost an ultra, feigning a call for the immediate elimination of class differences (not class itself) rather than the supposedly despotic rule of the workers, which he agrees the Bolsheviks accomplished but views as a bad thing:

https://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Hitler%20Speeches/Hitler%20Speech%201937.01.30.html

And I found the one I was initially thinking of:

What we understand by socialism is not the socialism of the Marxists. The Marxists have stolen the word and confused its meaning. We understand by socialism the service of the common good, not the denial of private property

Which was published in a paper in 1932

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I appreciate the effort here, and this is history I am very aware of to be clear; maybe my phrasing was wrong: The Nazis, Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or National Socialist German Workers' Party, deliberatly apropreated the asthetic and rehtoric of a working-class movement, even adopting the word Socialist into their party name, to capture working-class support in their rise to power. What I'm unsure of is if this was understood at the time, by the party leadership, to have a dual character: garnering working-class support while also tarnishing or muddying socialism as an idea through its association with their party and activity.

Holding a parade with the army of the Bolsheviks, having so theorly attacked them over the years, is a strange thing to do. It would be interesting to read if German papers wrote about this parade and how it was framed. The point I'm trying to articulate here is, clearly, throughout history post WW2, historians and economists alike have attempted to conflate socialism and nazism as twin ideologies in practice, and I wonder if this was something the Nazis understood during their time in power and actively attempted to foment through things like this parade. How many people of the time believed this pact represented a kind of commonality or shared ideal, and how much of that is strictly ahistorical interpretation?

[–] purpleworm@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago

I feel like the Nazis probably understood this a little bit at the time, because the "holodomor was a genocide" narrative was popularized by Goebbels as a way of justifying the Nazis and OUN-B, etc. doing real genocide.

When I was poking around about the subject, one theory I saw was that the Nazis wanted to allay fears from the German people about war with the Soviet Union by making the relationship look much better than it was. I think between that and saving face over ceding the territory, it overall makes sense.