this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2025
50 points (100.0% liked)

askchapo

23092 readers
149 users here now

Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.

Rules:

  1. Posts must ask a question.

  2. If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.

  3. Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.

  4. Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

When reading through Marx I can't help but think that capitalism has gotten even worse today than it used to be back then, meaning that the actual mechanisms that drive capital now need much more exploitation and in more forms than they used to.

Also I wonder if some changes of capitalism have also caused the working class to be so completely numb. Workers of the 19th and 20th century knew that the capitalists have opposite needs to them and only through fighting them could they stand to improve their situation. However today people just seem uninterested to really fight for themselves despite the proletariat being a much larger percentage of society compared to the past. I know I'm leaving out some important struggles going on when I'm saying this, but it still makes me wonder what made workers in the past centuries so much more class conscious.

I don't believe that much, if anything, that Marx critiqued about capitalism has changed on a structural level, but the flow of capital is so complex today, and the collected capital has become so much larger, that it begs the question if this has created some superstructures of capitalism today.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[โ€“] HamManBad@hexbear.net 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

the actual mechanisms that drive capital now need much more exploitation and in more forms than they used to

I would challenge this claim, in Marx's time Congolese workers would have their hands cut off for missing quotas, or worse. The era of socialist revolutions helped reduce the level of exploitation around the world. Though the shape of things has changed, the core mechanisms of capital today are essentially the same as when Marx was writing (he predicted increasing automation, so even AI is within the scope of his theory).

What he didn't discuss much in his writings (but was definitely aware of) is the nature of imperialism. Being an imperial subject himself, I think he underestimated the degree to which workers in the imperial core could be convinced their interests align with the imperial bourgeoisie instead of the international working class-- so, even as an organized working class in industrial countries advanced, their material gains actually alienated them from the international working class and severely dulled class consciousness

However, it is precisely because of the internal contractions of capitalism that Marx identified way back in the 19th century that we are seeing a return of class consciousness even in the imperial core. The capitalists just can't help themselves, the logic of competition pushes them to dismantle the very systems that stabilize the capitalist system. Once again the choice of the workers is becoming clear-- organize or be crushed

[โ€“] iByteABit@hexbear.net 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I would challenge this claim, in Marx's time Congolese workers would have their hands cut off for missing quotas, or worse.

I was thinking more about things like insane price gouging, monopolies the likes of Nestle, meta-capitalists like Blackrock, making workers self evaluate themselves and push themselves without any command, extreme competition to find work, and others.

Of course the actual working conditions back then were much worse, working extremely long hours doing mostly manual labour and also actual violence like you mentioned.