this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2025
1106 points (99.4% liked)
History Memes
3344 readers
1694 users here now
A place to share history memes!
Rules:
-
No sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, assorted bigotry, etc.
-
No fascism, atrocity denial or apologia, etc.
-
Tag NSFW pics as NSFW.
-
Follow all Lemmy.world rules.
Banner courtesy of @setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Calling me an eco-fascist is the ad-hominem. It's missing the point that there is no benefit to having more people on the planet, there is no harm in providing people the means to control their reproduction (if they choose to do so). Eventually we will reach the carrying capacity of the planet which will require literally euthanizing or sterilizing people so that humanity can survive, so we will have to limit reproduction, and I'm in favor of encouraging people to do that electively right now. There is no sense in getting to that cricitical point earlier.
I did a quick search on what eco-fascists preach, and they seek to limit human population through violence or force ( which I'm not advocating for), along racial lines ( which I'm not advocating for), rejecting modernity ( I work in tech, definitely not something I'm for). I'm not an eco-fascist, and calling me one is an ad-hominemn to distract from the point that slowing or stopping human population growth through voluntary means is a gain for humanity as a whole.
I'm not using the same taking points as eco-fascists, and even if I was, I wouldn't be concerned and here is why... Regular fascists platformed on making the trains run on time, but it would be ridiculous to label anyone pro-rail infrastructure as a fascist. Similarity in tools, is not similarity in execution and goals.
Do you think fascist think they are bad guys? No, they justify their material actions in the same way you are. Most supporters of fascism aren't going to think "I'm doing this for the white race". No, they justify the same material actions through other means. And people like you fall for it. They do this until their support and power is so strong they can claim their true beliefs.
When you say things like "caring capacity of the planet". Like, that's actually a realistic threat. I'm going to call it out for what it is. Just absolute pseudo science and anti-human shit.
Dude, the planet is going to become inhospital in most places for human life within the next century or two. Any talk about population is a mask for fascist to decide which people are allowed to live in hospitable places. And who they decide will die. You're falling for some really dumb shit pretending to be scientific when looked at in a vacuum.
Eco-fascist stand their as a solution to the "hard truths" of climate change. Masking themselves as scientific and reasonable. They are not offering solutions for humanity. They are offering solutions for who they view as human and "leser than". But they're not gonna say that. They're gonna say the same thing you are saying.
I understand you likely don't believe in eco-fascist goals of eugenics. But that doesn't mean you aren't using their exact same playbook in what you are saying.
Even if your falsehoods were correct. They are meaningless unless your material goal is fascism and deciding which groups of people are allowed to have children (and really that just means which groups are allowed to live). Seriously. Follow this to its logical conclusion. You are verbatim using eco-fascist talking points.
There is not a gray area here. The intentions will not save people from the material events that will unfold to suppress a groups population.
They don't make up their talking points to convince other white supremacists. They make up their talking points to fool people like you into believing they are "hard truths".
If you find yourself often being called "fascist" and think "all these leftist just call everyone a Nazi". Then I hope you come to the realization that what people are saying is that you are repeating fascist talking points.
Fascist don't care if you believe in their race supremacy. They just care that you are just convinced enough to believe enough of their truths to not stop them.
I think you'd benefit from from listening to this short video.
https://youtu.be/0YFdwfNh5vs
Listen and maybe try to understand why the people that support "strong borders" aren't exactly the same as you supporting "hard truths of population". These are the same fascist goals. They are flexible in their lies and fooling you in the same way they fooled those idiots saying "build that wall".
Eco fascism is just the version of fascism meant to bring well intentioned liberals to support their ideology.
Point out where I'm advocating for one race to be eliminated or preserved over another one. Direct quotes please, otherwise any intent of racial bias exists entirely in your own mind and misunderstanding. Drop this line of attack, it's not valid and you can't make it stick.
Not sure if typo, but the term is "carrying capacity", this may affect your understanding of my comment if you think I actually meant "caring capacity". Carrying capacity is the maximum number of a species that can exist in an environment/area. It's hilarious to see you write about carrying capacity being false (assuming you read the correct term) in one paragraph, and then immediately turn around and state this...
...Which pretty explicitly recognizes that the space on this planet that humans can live on is finite, and will get even smaller if we don't change our current climate trends. This logical inconsistency seems pretty on point for you though. I really suggest that you examine your opinions, especially when they are right next to each other, and then come to a singluar point that you can argue instead of just throwing shit at the wall and hoping that I don't call you out on it.
You're saying here that I'm advocating for eco-fascist tools and tactics, and therefore I must be an eco-fascist. Let me reduce this argument further, "if you use the same tools as a group, you must be part of the group". Well, famously, the Nazis wore clothes and drove cars, if you do either of those then congratulations; by your logic, you are a Nazi. So tell me, why are you advocating for the extermination of Jews? Or is it that your logic is flawed and your conclusions about my alignment with eco-fascism is void of any actual evidence?
Let's examine this point a little more... I'm not stupid, and I'm willing to believe you're not stupid. You're insinuating that equitorial regions, like Central America, Africa and India are going to be the regions primarily affected by global warming... These are areas where the people are predominantly targeted by racial profiling by hate groups. So what you are saying, is that it's an Eco-Fascist position to advocate for global ability for individuals to control reproduction, but the alternative is that the people in these areas die first and most frequently during a global climate crisis. It's seems pretty fucking racist to me to fight against global population efforts while acknowledging that people of those demographics are going to be the most vulnerable to the inevitable crisis caused by global (not regional) population growth. If that was too much, let my summarize, the full consequences of your position as I understand it; it's racist to give people globally the tools to electively control their reproduction, and you're alright with marginalized groups dying because of the consequences of rapid population growth in wealthier (whiter, I might dare to add) areas? And you think I'm the one here who is unwittingly racist? Really?
No, it is explained in the rest of my post. You can't just simply assert your first statement without evidence. Did you miss the whole section on you being a nazi because you (probably) drive a car and wear clothes? Your argument that I'm an eco-fascist is built on the exact same framework. If you want to call me an Eco-Fascist, then you need to point to statement where I explicitly say that I am an eco-fascist, or I explicitly call for eco-fascism. Note that Eco-fascism is the use of authoritarianism, violence, and force to explicitly wipe out ethnic groups and using vague justifications about the environment to support it.
Since you seem confused by my actual position, let me try to clearly state it for you, and you can try to attack that.
The earth is finite, therefore the resources on earth are finite. People need those resources to live, therefore the maximum population of people on the planet is finite. Please note here that I am not arguing that we have reached that limit, or are even near that limit.
Humans are by far the biggest driver of climate change, and the more people there are on the planet, the faster this will occur, and regions of the planet will become inhospitable more quickly.
There is no benefit to increasing the total number of people on the planet at this point.
Providing everyone with the means to self limit their reproduction is a gain for humanity and life as we know it. Note that this is not a call for euthanasia, sterilization, or government incentives to go childless, nor is it a call to specifically target certain regions or demographics. I think we should provide global access to contraceptives to both sexes, along with education about reproduction, laws guaranteeing an individual's right to reproductive autonomy, social safety nets to care for the elderly without relying on their children, and education on the damage the human population is doing to biodiversity and life on Earth.
None of that is ecofascism, at no point do I call for authoritarian, violent, or racist policies to be used, all 3 of which are core tenants of eco-fascism.
I read your whole comment mate. I can reply to one part and realize that you're not actually acknowledging my point. I was trying to simplify things for you because you seem to not be able to respond well to long replies. I was pointing to a really obvious misunderstanding of our discussion. You can't even acknowledge that?
I'll put it simply with an extreme example. Again, this is an EXAMPLE. I'm not calling you a Nazi. I'm using an extreme analogy to make a point.
Being a Nazi does not require one to acknowledge that they are a Nazi. If that was the requirement no one but the Nazis of 1930-1940s Germany would fit the definition. One can still be rightfully called a Nazi when they are repeating Nazi talking points. Regardless of their intentions or misunderstandings. We'd call them a Nazi.
You are consistently repeating eco fascist talking points. I don't care about you're own internal rationalizing for that. They are eco fascist and you are saying them. That's it. You can try to justify that to yourself but it doesn't make you repeating the same things eco-fascist say any less of a reality. That's what you did.
You're missing 2 things.
1, I did not repeat eco-fascist talking points. Quote the relevant text from me along with providing a source on eco-fascist positions of you want to continue to make this argument.