“If you think we should do it let’s go. I just hate bailing Europe out again,” Vance replied. Hegseth agreed that “I fully share your loathing of European free-loading. It’s PATHETIC.” But, he added, “we are the only ones on the planet (on our side of the ledger) who can do this.”

Miller, the Trump confidant, effectively ended the conversation by saying that the president had been clear. “Green light, but we soon make clear to Egypt and Europe what we expect in return.”

Edit: The texts are released to public

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[–] nuko147@lemm.ee 37 points 6 days ago (4 children)

It's Europeans fault too. For too long we followed the same line with USA on the middle east crisis, and many have no problem with the genocide that is on the work there. The neighbourhood of Europe (and now even part of it) is unstable from poverty and war, and we were fine with that.

[–] Melchior@feddit.org 11 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Most of the issues really have been created by Europe. Jewish settlement was supported by the British for a long time. Not creating a Kurdish state was also a massive mistake, which has a good chance of leading to a genocide in Syria right now. Sudan was drawn up by the Brits and that mess has been in civil war for ages. Not to mention Germany with the Holocaust, forcing millions of Jews to the Palastine.

That is not to say the US is perfect, but especially the UK and France really created a lot of the fault lines.

[–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The UK didn't screw anything up, drawing the borders in such a way as to leave entire regions unstable in the long term was the entire point. (Which to be clear is more fucked up)

[–] letsgo@lemm.ee 0 points 6 days ago

We've been invaded over and over again. If we can keep the foreigners fighting each other then that means they won't invade us. It's just self-preservation.

[–] nuko147@lemm.ee 10 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Colonial attitudes never really went away. Not gonna play the victim here - we’re not innocent, and yeah, the U.S. screwed us over. But in the last 30-35 years, we’ve had plenty of time to fix things and create stability. But nope, war and stealing resources make more money for the powers than peace ever could.

Now everyone’s low-key prepping for WW3. Not just Europe’s military spending, but the creepiest part? People are kinda accepting in their guts that it’s gonna happen by 2030.

[–] Ofiuco@lemmy.cafe 5 points 6 days ago

Kinda related, I made a similar comment about my country (🇲🇽), about how we got screwed over a long time ago but we didn't really took matters into our hands after that at all and got downvoted to hell by people blinded by "but 'murica did it, it's their fault", like bitch, I'm not saying they didn't do it, I'm saying we didn't do anything to not let it happen again or to not be so weak.
It's as if every or most goverments around the world didn't learn shit and just got complacent, we brought this upon ourselves.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 3 points 6 days ago

History repeats. While Europe has learned from it, USA is doing everything they can to make Vance the next Franz Ferdinand.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 9 points 6 days ago

This is why I maintain that Trump's distancing of Europe is the biggest trust busting operation in US history. Down with the Empire.

[–] rraggl@mastodon.nl 3 points 6 days ago (4 children)

@nuko147 @Damage Bullshit... The Americans were the first ones to kick the anthill... Yes, you could blame us for standing by and watching them do it and sometimes even helping, but that's what you do when your (back then) friend asks you for help.

[–] nuko147@lemm.ee 7 points 6 days ago

There are no friends between countries. Only allies and benefits. You don't shoot your legs for an ally. Help is another thing. We were supposed to be allies, but the USA überall is their new motto.

Fucking up Libya, destroying Yugoslavia, maintaining a chaos in Palestine - Israel, help invade Iraq with lies, cut ties with Russia and let Ukraine to get invaded are not things you do even for friends.

[–] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 5 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Everyone has a moral obligation to decline immoral orders let alone immoral requests. "Just following orders" doesn't cut it.

[–] rraggl@mastodon.nl -1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

@Reddfugee42 Who said anything about that? The world isn't black & white you know? As much as it would simplify things, life isn't simple and never will be. Good things were done during that alliance as well as bad things. I was just pointing out who started it.

[–] Reddfugee42@lemmy.world 1 points 5 days ago

I mean, you did, when you said "you could blame us for helping but that's what friends do"

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 6 days ago

Yes, you could blame us for standing by and watching them do it and sometimes even helping, but that's what you do when your (back then) friend asks you for help.

If you help your friend kill millions of people and keep a region where hundreds of millions live because "a friend asked you for help" then guess what? You fucking deserve the consequences.

[–] Damage@feddit.it 1 points 6 days ago

You mean when your boss tells you to. Western Europe was colonized after WW2, not to the same dire consequences of the Warsaw pact, but we clearly were subordinate to the US.

[–] RedSnt@feddit.dk 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Article 5 proved to be a bit of a trap card, because that's the reason Europe was dragged into the post 9/11 middle eastern wars, but I guess European NATO countries could've just ignored it or whatever.

[–] nuko147@lemm.ee 8 points 6 days ago

Only in Afghanistan was called. After 9/11. All others were voluntary. Also France, Germany and UK played a key role to many shitty things. They are not innocent but idiots who never saw the big picture.