So, the war has been going on for three fucking years already, and you still don't know what's actually going on there, all while supporting the regime? Well, I am not surprises even a little bit.

There are shitton of articles written by western media about the kidnappings, but I am sure they are all sponsored by Russia, right?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m-ukrainian-conscription-officer-people-070000956.html?guccounter=1.

https://unn.ua/en/news/a-lecturer-at-lviv-university-was-found-beaten-and-unconscious-near-kyiv-what-is-known-what-are-the-questions-to-the-tcc

Here is a library of a fraction of videos about that (obviously faked and sponsored by Russia, because CNN told me Zelensky is good, this cannot be happening): https://uadraftmuseum.ch/incidents

[–] B0rax@feddit.org 12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Please. I did not pick any sides here with my question. I am not the person your argued with earlier.

I sure do understand that in a war people are drawn into service against their will, it always has been like that. War sucks, that is out of the question and it surely is not the fault of the nation that is under attack.

Thanks for your sources. Without sources, anyone can go around and say anything. Especially in this day and age.

[+] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -12 points 5 months ago (1 children)

it always has been like that.

People were always hunted down on the streets and packed into vans by masked people (there is an entire new word for that btw, "busification") with the west cheering the man who does it as a great democratic leader? Huh.

it surely is not the fault of the nation that is under attack.

But it is surely the fault of the people being kidnapped, beaten, tortured and killed, right? I mean, you wouldn't support this happening to innocent people who never wronged you?

[–] B0rax@feddit.org 6 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t say I support it. But this is war. Who is at fault? The attacking nation. Russia. This is the enemy. They are at fault. It does not excuse the cruelties that are happening, but I sure think that it would be worse if the Russian army advances and murders and tortures civilians in the process like they have done already.

Sure, Zelensky might not be perfect, but I don’t think most presidents would do a better job.

To be clear: I hate that this is happening, I hate everything about it. I don’t have a solution and I don’t pretend that I know how to do it better.

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I didn’t say I support it.

Well, thank you for that at least..

Who is at fault? The attacking nation. Russia. This is the enemy. They are at fault.

Russia is in no way at fault for Zelensky's actions. It was his and his alone choice to trap people in a country with active hostilities (so that he both has more cannon fodder to expense and more casualties to pin on Russia). It was his and his alone choice to kidnap people off the streets and send them to their deaths. The enemy for the people being kidnapped and sent to their deaths is Zelensky's regime and others who support that regime. Russia does a lot of terrible things, but all of what I originally commented is solely on Zelensky and those who support him. Putin is not trying to get me, my friends, my family and everyone I know killed, Zelensky does.

it would be worse if the Russian army advances and murders and tortures civilians in the process like they have done already.

Like they did in Crimea, Melitopol, Donetsk, Lugansk, etc. right (and like Ukrainian force did NOT do in Kursk)? Or are people on those lands still doing [relatively] okay and can move to Ukraine controlled territories at any moment, while those who are on Ukraine controlled territories are kidnapped off the streets and cannot leave? Should [for a Ukrainian] be tortured by Ukrainians be somehow more preferable than being tortured by a Russian? (Ukrainian parliament members said that there are many more cases like this, it's just the only one that managed to gain attention)

[–] NoSpotOfGround@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Are you similarly concerned about the recruitment practices in the aggressor country? Having sensitivities so attuned to these things, surely you must have at least equal concerns about Russia.

Would you like to describe those concerns? Perhaps also include some links and examples that have inflamed you in particular?

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Would you like to describe those concerns?

Well, sure! I am very concerned indeed that in the "aggressor country" that according to the news is about to go bankrupt (for the last 3 years..), people are volunteering to join the army because of monetary incentives, but Zelensky together with the "democratic" west decided that me and other Ukrainians are his personal slaves who can be kidnapped off the streets and sent to the meatgrinder just like this. All of that while receiving hundreds of billions of dollars, with at least a hundred just missing.. Very concenening indeed.

Despite how concerning this is, I don't see how is this relevant here? I hope you were not trying to justify terrorizing people with "well, you see in that other place they are doing bad things as well, so why shouldn't we do that"?

[–] Voting_sponge@lemmy.ca 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Dude, thank you for your service, really.

As a person who has been born in the post-USSR country and knowing what's going on there, I sincerely hate both russian and ukrainian governments. In this war there won't be any winners amongst regular people, and one cannot justify horrific actions of Zelenskiy by saying that Putin is just doing the same or something.

I really hope this shitshow be over as soon as possible.

[–] bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thank you, it's really heartwarming to hear something nice instead of... the usual Lemmy stuff! ❤

[–] Voting_sponge@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

No problem :)

When I first joined Lemmy I hoped it would be more of a place where some different world views can be met a discussed, but people here are usually very hostile to even the slightest disagreements towards some political topics, so Zelenskiy is a hero no matter what.

[–] Grapho@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago

The issue with reddit's fascism problem isn't just that it's filled with glowies, it's that it's filled with westerners.

[–] Grapho@lemmy.ml -1 points 5 months ago

Are you similarly concerned about the recruitment practices in the aggressor country?

Is there a reason to be concerned? There's proof of Ukrainians being kidnapped off the streets to be conscripted, do you have any evidence of the same happening with Russians or are you just both sidesing this thing because "ok but Russia worse" is your automatic defense to justify atrocities?