this post was submitted on 14 Feb 2025
247 points (98.1% liked)

Europe

2353 readers
780 users here now

News and information from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 7 months ago
MODERATORS
 

[The link leads to 2 min. video.]

Alexander Borodai is a member of Russian Duma and one of the founding fathers of the "DPR" (Donetsk People Republic) under FSB control.

[...]

  • First, he admits that any ceasefire for Russia will only be a temporary freeze in the war, because Putin's main goal will not be achieved - taking control of all of Ukraine and establishing a puppet Russian regime. Any independent Ukraine for Russians is "Western weapon".

  • Second, he admits that Russia has been waging war with the help of people like him in Ukraine since 2014, and in 2022 it only continued with a full-scale invasion.

  • And most importantly, third, he directly says that the problem is not that Ukraine can be in NATO. The problem for Russians is that they consider all of Ukraine to be their "historical territory" and that Ukrainians "do not exist as a nation at all", and that Ukraine is inhabited by "divided Russians".

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Skiluros@sh.itjust.works -1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Did you ever ask for any research on this topic or even meaningfuly engage with what I was saying E.g. How do you know this? Have you considered the limitations inherent to specific research methodologies? What about the "philosophical" arguments about the validity and interpretation of political polling?

You never mentioned any of the above points and just went with "you are chauvinist and an enemy of all that is decent in this world!". And I went with your flow, is that really surprising to you?

Who said anything about ingrained? I don't believe it is ingrained in a physical or biological sense. It's a reflection of the choice they make. One that I would argue are enabled by people like yourself who feel the need to deny reality and whitewash russian genocidal attitudes.

Sources

  1. The reluctant consensus: War and Russia’s public opinion - Relatively recent.

Some more specialized research that addresses some of the clown logic that you often hear in such discussions "they don't actually support genocidal imperialism, the vast majority are very afraid and lying in the polls!!!"

  1. Solid support or secret dissent? A list experiment on preference falsification during the Russian war against Ukraine - Note how the authors explicitly state that their preference falsification adjusted estimate for support for the full scale invasion (65%) likely underestimates the true level of support.

  2. Do Russians support the military invasion of Ukraine? - This is minor part of the report, but they do show how preference falsification is irrelevant with respect to often criticized (by allegedly liberal russians) Levada findings about ~85% support for the annexation of Crimea that has been stable from 2014 to 2021.

  3. «А когда уже победа-то наша будет?» - In russian, maybe somebody made a good English language translation, I don't know. A damning take on "non-political" russians' view of genocidal invasions. The funny thing is that this qualitative research was run by opposition-minded russians. I am surprised they even published it.

  4. Don’t trust opinion polling about support in Russia for the Ukraine invasion. A weak counter argument to findings similar to [1], does not in any way address the general points in [2],[3],[4]. The author explicitly denies [2] without providing any context or explanation. It's the "I don't believe any research unless it portrays russian society in a good light" factor so to speak.

[–] bungalowtill@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Yeah, so it’s limitations of methodology and philosophical arguments that are preventing the sources you have provided from proving your initial claim. Can’t argue with that. Bit weird though, because you came along and said your assumptions were based on facts.

Glancing through your information, I see numbers from the Atlantic Council that don’t surprise me. Reasons for government support that are largely known, like on the Japanese website. Nothing of that supports what you are saying.

But: Cool that we can agree that those attitudes are not ingrained. And because numbers seemingly don’t help us, let’s talk about how these genocidal tendencies are a reflection of the choices Russian people make. What are those choices? (Later we can talk about how “people like me” enable those)

Edit:

I think I should have noticed this earlier:

Your initial comment under the post with a ridiculous title like that, is just that: a propaganda piece. 

The Article:

Russians showing their real intentions after all

You:

Most Russians are genocidal anyway. And that’s a fact.

Me:

Discussing…. Fuck that, I am out.

[–] Skiluros@sh.itjust.works -2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Surprise, surprise. You russian genocide white washing shills are all the same. What are you even saying? You clearly didn't read anything I shared and simply assume that it all magically aligns with your worldview. If you did, you'd actually have meaningful arguments of my position. You didn't address a single point that I made and just went with "Nah, all that stuff actually shows I am right!1!1!!!"

That's why I labelled you as fake humanist.

I am done here.