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this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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Right, almost any legislation he tried to pass was blocked by Congress because of Manchin and Sinema.
If we blame/punish politicians for trying then why would they keep trying?
Manchin and Sinema were enacting the will of party leadership.
By voting against the party? That doesn’t make any sense
They didn't vote against the party. They voted against what the party ran on but never had any intention of ever doing.
Why do you feel they didn’t have any intention of doing what they ran on?
Why don't you?
Because they’ve passed legislation that hasn’t been blocked in Congress like the student loan forgiveness. Which went on to be blocked by conservative lawsuits. But not after helping some people.
This makes it pretty clear than republicans are the reason democrats can’t get more progressive policies passed. Even to those not paying attention.
Student loan forgiveness was an executive order. It was never voted on in congress. It would have stood a better chance of surviving the courts if it had. But it wouldn't have got past the Senate because Manchinema was there doing the party's work.
USA Today: Senate votes to repeal Biden student loan forgiveness; White House plans a veto
That was a vote to repeal the executive order.
That’s irrelevant. We are talking about whether the Democratic Party intended to do what they said they would do.
They said they would forgive student loans. They were blocked by republicans.
You are acting like democrats are to blame for republicans actions.
The deciding votes were from Democratic senators.
Manchin and Sinema. Why are you trying to blame the Dem party for people that don’t vote along party lines. That’s an obvious bad faith argument.
They did their jobs. They voted like leadership wanted. There are always just enough Manchins.
The people gave Democrats a majority. They found enough no votes. Like fucking always.
Manchin and Sinema exist because any politician can just claim to be democrat and not vote along party lines. For you to act like it is some conspiracy by the democrats to not follow through on what they worked for is a bad faith argument.
Isn’t it more likely that republicans, the group that actively blocks all democrats out then up to it?
Which also would be a conspiracy.
There is evidence of republicans trying to stop Democratic legislation. There is none of the Democratic Party trying to stop the Democratic Party
There is plenty of evidence of Democrats trying to stop progressives. Why would that be limited to progressive candidates and not progressive legislation?
“Democrats” or the Democratic Party as a whole? Because any bad faith actor can claim to be democrat and go against party lines.
It sure happens reliably.
When people like yourself fall for it, why would they stop?
When they can count on people like yourself to make excuses for it, why would they stop?
Pointing out that republicans try to block democrat legislation is reality not an excuse. But you probably believe they are all lizard people with your conspiracy minded thought process.
Provided that you ignore that Republicans always seem to be able to vote in lockstep and always have just enough help from elected Democrats.
You’re claiming that all republican legislation that has ever been passed, only passed because of help from democrats? That’s verifiably false.
No, I'm claiming that when Democrats have a majority, Republicans vote in lockstep and Democrats always manage to have enough turncoats.
You're saying that you love it in all cases because they block things that might help people other than Netanyahu. I'm being more honest about your position than you just decided to be about mine. I'm leaving this conversation because you're trying to muddy the waters and there are better dishonest centrists out there to waste my time arguing with.
In 2020 the senate was a 50/50 split with the vice president giving the democrats 1 more vote than republicans. In 2022 it was a 51/49 split giving dems only 2 more votes than republicans. The “majority” was so slim that it was not enough for the supermajority vote required for the most important legislation. And it only took 1-2 senators to not vote along party lines to block Democratic legislation.
To ignore that and pretend that dems had the power to do whatever they wanted is disingenuous.
To blame the Democratic Party for the actions of 1-2 senators that chose to go against the party is disingenuous.