146
submitted 2 days ago by pete_link@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396125

Stephen Starr in Hamtramck, Michigan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 11.00 EDT

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 hours ago
[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 3 hours ago

quick scan looks like a non-starter for me but good luck! anything where economy is centrally managed is a horrible idea, and something marx got very wrong its essentially what we have now just with a different person in charge. 🤷

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 3 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

What a fantastic way to say you have no idea what Marxism is, nor how Socialism is different from Capitalism. Consider reading Why Public Property?

Central Planning is the only way forward.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 31 minutes ago* (last edited 3 minutes ago)

because I dont give a shit about marxist. its mostly nonsense. he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems. just because you're blinded doesn't mean every socialist is as foolish. centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption they foster. like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it'll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.

edit: now i was a little terse there sorry. anyways I dont need you to give me an expose on marxism. its strictly unnecessary. this is where the PSL is claiming to require a planned economy. which is a bad idea and thats what I was reacting to; its what we have today and its ripe for corruption. any socialist movement is going to have to learn to reject centralized structures beyond a certain size.

if the goal is to prevent wealth accumulation/ensure the needs of the workers are met, there are other methods to do so that dont require a planned economy.

now I suggest you go spend your efforts on another individual, theres no more play here for you. but again I recommend PSL spend its effort on state level efforts and show their model can work. there is some okayish ideas there they just need to prove them first but there is also a lot of things we already have available.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 minutes ago* (last edited 41 seconds ago)

because I dont give a shit about marxist.

I can gather.

its mostly nonsense

Not at all, it's entirely relevant and correct.

he identified the root problem but failed to understand human nature or how to build robust economies/systems

Can you elaborate? What did Marx fail to understand about Human Nature? What about Marxism goes against robust economies and systems? The largest economy in the world is run by Marxists today.

just because you're blinded doesn't mean every socialist is as foolish

Weird personal attack, you have yet to make a concrete point, just wildly gesture.

centralized planning is what we have today in late stage capitalism, and its what caused communist societies to collapse under the corruption then foster

Funny, you are almost correct. The fact that markets trend towards consolidation and monopolization makes themselves ripe for public ownership and central planning. This is exactly why Marx said Socialism succeeds Capitalism, the older the Capitalist system gets, and the more it consolidates itself, the more effective public siezure and central planning will be. The issue is that late stage Capitalism isn't yet Central Planning because it's still privately owned and operated for profit. This is something the article I linked you explains in detail, if you wish to learn more.

Additionally, your point on central planning collapsing AES is false. Many AES states still exist, in fact Central Planning is what caused the PRC to skyrocket in growth. It was also extremely effective in the USSR until later in its existence, where it struggled due to establishing planning by hand, and failing to transition to computerized planning adequately as the economy got increasingly complex, resulting in liberalization that further went against the efficiency of central planning. Despite this, the economy had great growth over its existence and dramatically lowered wealth inequality:

like i said good luck in your idealistic vision it'll never work because its inflexible and misses the point.

I'm not sure what you mean by Marxism being "idealistic," "inflexible," or how it "misses the point." What do you mean by any of that?

now i was a little terse there sorry. anyways I dont need you to give me an expose on marxism. its strictly unnecessary. this is where the PSL is claiming to require a planned economy. which is a bad idea and thats what I was reacting to; its what we have today and its ripe for corruption. any socialist movement is going to have to learn to reject centralized structures beyond a certain size.

You have explained none of this, we do not have a planned economy now nor is it correct to reject central planning.

this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
146 points (80.2% liked)

United States | News & Politics

7167 readers
760 users here now

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS