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this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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@Zombiepirate
Fascists still believe in the State; conservatives are free market devotees but ambivalent if not hostile to the State.
Not all conservatives are free market devotees; that's a modern twist that is not universal.
But you agree that they work to the same ends?
@Zombiepirate
I disagree. Conservatives naturally favor organic methods like common law, free markets, culture, and hierarchy.
As far as work to the same ends, I think you have it backwards. Fascism is a hybrid. It borrows some goals and methods from both Left and Right.
Conservatism also borrows from the leftist rhetoric and action though, so that's not a solid distinction.
They're both counterrevolutionary in nature; I don't see the distinction that you do. It appears that they are possibly different in degree instead of kind. This is the "ends" that I refer to: opposition to the liberal revolutions since the 18th century.
@Zombiepirate
Conservatism existed before Leftism. Any borrowing is the other way.
Leftism is inherently revolutionary. You recall the origins of the term?
Conservatism was a reaction to revolutionary politics, it did not proceed it. Even the name makes it clear that it is a response to action.
Leftism is inherently revolutionary, and conservatism was a response to that.
But back to my original question: why do you think @neuromancer denies that fascists and conservatives make natural allies?
@Zombiepirate
On the contrary, conservatives were always here. We just had to take a name after Leftism so people did not think we supported the "new way."
I don't think conservatives and fascists make natural allies. Conservatives and conservatives make natural allies. You cannot trust the radical big state people.
But conservatives want a big state too, they just claim otherwise. Look how they push rhetoric like "back the blue," are for abortion restrictions, and want to fund the military above and beyond what it even asks for. Their policies push a soft ethno-state, as far as they think they can get away with.
Again, it's a meaningless distinction.
@Zombiepirate
Saying "conservatives" is often difficult because conservatism is a big tent of realists to varying degrees.
Evangelical Christians certainly care about abortion a lot. The Social Darwinists want it cheap, legal, and easily accessed however.
Well @neuromancer clearly doesn't take issue with your ethnostate garbage, so he obviously thinks you're allies.
That's the "big tent" you're taking about, yes?
@Zombiepirate
Lots of people realize that a mono-ethnic society is a necessary but not sufficient condition for survival, even some Leftists.
I cannot speak for the opinions of others.
@Zombiepirate
Also, remove civil rights law and an ethnostate will form naturally.
We are trying to limit any extremes that might occur in order to save lives.
@Zombiepirate
Also, wanting something other than the revolutionary order is not opposition.
It's a choice for an alternative.
Ordinary people recognize that, but ideologues do not.