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submitted 3 weeks ago by lemmee_in@lemm.ee to c/technology@lemmy.world

Let's put it this way; when Microsoft announced its plans to start adding features to Windows 10 once again, despite the operating system's inevitable demise in October 2025, everyone expected slightly different things to see ported over from Windows 11. Sadly, the latest addition to Windows 10 is one of the most annoying changes coming from Windows 11's Start menu.

Earlier this year, Microsoft introduced a so-called "Account Manager" for Windows 11 that appears on the screen when you click your profile picture on the Start menu. Instead of just showing you buttons for logging out, locking your device or switching profiles, it displays Microsoft 365 ads. All the actually useful buttons are now hidden behind a three-dot submenu (apparently, my 43-inch display does not have enough space to accommodate them). Now, the "Account Manager" is coming to Windows 10 users.

The change was spotted in the latest Windows 10 preview builds from the Beta and Release Preview Channels. It works in the same way as Windows 11, and it is disabled by default for now because the submenu with sign-out and lock buttons does not work.

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[-] Boozilla@lemmy.world 26 points 3 weeks ago

Chicken and egg. Linux is roughly 4% of the OS space. If more people would get on board, it would become a better tool. I use both. Windows because I have to. Linux because I want to.

[-] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee -1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Linux missed the mark years ago. It's not a lack of people using it, it's a lack of usability for people. You're blaming users because Linux doesn't work for them.

My standard response to "just go Linux" :

I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it's still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.

As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I'd stuck with Cobol).

I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.

I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Update: stopped running Mint on that laptop, it'll never be viable for the intended use-case. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won't even boot.

Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it'll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows simply will not let a battery get to zero.

There's no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-first century, something Windows has had since I don't recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it's been what, almost thirty years now).

There are many reasons why Linux doesn't compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.

Now let's look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that's just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying "you should manage data in a proper database app". While I don't disagree with the sentiment, no, I'm not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That's just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn't realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.

Now there's that print monitor that's on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?

Networking... Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn't say "save creds"? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?

Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won't even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.

Someone else said it better than me:

Every time I've installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it's gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn't look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works.... only it doesn't save my preferences.

So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically.. but that doesn't work, so now I can't boot.. so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that... then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution... wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it's been four hours, it's 3:00am and I'm like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.

And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren't supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can't wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?

I just can't do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I've loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.

I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.

Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM's on Linux (Proxmox) because that's better than running Linux VM's on a Windows server.

Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.

Linux doesn't even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it's own way), and that's a massive barrier for users.

If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would've had a chance to beat MS, even then it would've required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.

These are what MS did in the 1980's to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.

All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world -3 points 3 weeks ago

I was going to write a reply to that guy about how linux doesn't work for the common man, but then you come in and write shakespear level articulation that blows away my tiny brain cell reply.

It's just such a complete analysis of the situation. The only thing missing is how linux requires you to use the terminal. Yes, REQUIRES. People can say it doesn't all they want, but go on any self help guide, and any problem you have, is "step 1, open terminal".

What would you say to someone who doesn't know what terminal is?

"Ok, open terminal?"

"Whats that?"

"Its like a command line, but better"

"Whats a command line?"

And this is why 96% of people AREN'T using linux. Most windows users don't understand how windows works. Most drivers don't understand how cars work. And linux you HAVE TO be a mechanic to use linux. Because unlike windows and mac, linux isn't designed to be used by idiots. And most of the world are idiots. Hell, I'm an idiot.

And until linux can fix itself FOR the user, no user will even take a look. Even if there were a single distro that did all that, you'd have to convince people "this linux isn't like the other linux". It's the main reason that even though Android is linux, it stays far far away from that branding. It doesn't want the linux stink.

And from what I've seen, every developer WANTS linux to be hard to use. Like a right of passage. "I had to endure these learning curves, and so shall you!"

[-] antithetical@lemmy.deedium.nl 10 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I have heard this argument for over 20 years.. "You have to use the terminal in Linux, so user hostile".

Well, try to do ANY windows sysadmin tasks without Powershell.. See how far that gets you. Need to manage Exchange? Powershell. Need to change some network settings? Powershell.. It is even getting more and more unavoidable. Now Powershell doesn't even have a good terminal environment, sane parameters or good usability. And a general lack of documentation for all the obscure incantations.

In the meantime KDE on Linux is wonderful, fully integrated with the system, easy software maintenance (on Kubuntu for example) and with a sane settings menu... You hardly need a terminal at all. Try to find that in Windows.

So sorry, this argument is either invalid, out of date or Microsoft is even worse.

[-] AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

I've been using Windows personally and professionally since 3.1, and Windows 11 was the last straw that finally got me to jump over to Linux for my home PC. I hate what Windows has become but I've got a lot of history with it. My experience with Linux (Mint FWIW) has been as smooth as it ever was in Windows, neither of which was perfect. I'm a definite convert from Windows and would encourage most people to consider taking the leap themselves.

I gotta disagree with you about modern Powershell and terminals in Windows, though. Good terminal? Windows Terminal has been around for years now. It's fast and functional. Whether Powershell's parameters are "sane" is probably a matter of taste, but I'm definitely willing to stick up for its usability. Yes, the parameter names are much more verbose, but they all get tab completion out of the box, and you don't have to type the full names at all, just enough of the start of the name to be unambiguous. For personal automation scripts, I think Powershell is way ahead of Bash. Parameters get bound automatically without needing to write for/case loops with getopts. You can write comments at the top of the file that automatically get integrated into Powershell's help system. Sending objects through the standard pipeline means you spend a lot less time and code just parsing text.

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

I don't know what powershell is. I just use control panel. Even though I have Windows 7, I have it laid out like Windows XP, because thats what I know.

So if I wanted to do something in network, I go to network settings.

[-] antithetical@lemmy.deedium.nl 4 points 3 weeks ago

Ha, then stay on Windows 7/10 or you'll lose your control panel soon..

[-] IAmNotACat@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Well if you like control panel, I've got good news for you. Upgrade to Windows 8/10/11 and you'll get two of them. :)

[-] Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

8 was a piece of trash when it was released. 11 was a piece of trash when it released. And now 11 is bleeding over into 10.

Windows 7 forever!!!!

[-] tyler@programming.dev -2 points 3 weeks ago

You do not need to use PS to manage network settings. And no normal user has any clue that exchange even exists much less needing to modify it. And saying that PS doesn’t have good documentation is laughable comparing it to bash. Listen, I hate windows just as much as you all do, but it is most definitely more user friendly than any Linux distribution out there. No windows user ever needs to even touch PS much less program network settings with it. Literally the fact that you need to even open the app at all is a massive fucking downside to Linux. Users don’t want to type out “weird incantations”. They want to click a button, select from a dropdown, or in the case of many many many drivers, do absolutely nothing at all.

The fact that you had to call out a specific nonstandard desktop environment to support your case for Linux being easy to use is exactly the point that several other people in this thread are trying to make.

[-] antithetical@lemmy.deedium.nl 5 points 3 weeks ago

I'm sorry, you're arguing in bad faith or have a huge case of Stockholm Syndrome.

But, just look at their Troubleshooting documentation where they tell you to drop to the terminal.

My point is that Microsoft has stopped making new buttons and dropdowns and refer you to new Powershell incantations for most new settings. Just look at how many options the new "Settings" app offers compared to the deprecated Control Panel.

[-] tyler@programming.dev 1 points 2 weeks ago

You switched from talking about network settings to now talking about troubleshooting!!!! Can’t even have a consistent narrative! I mean at least try dude.

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this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2024
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