Riverside

joined 2 weeks ago
[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 4 days ago

Then the government will need to purchase the houses / apartments from the current owners

Expropriation can be carried out without purchase, and it has been done in several countries to the great benefit of the workers. No need to pay for the housing of the landlords, we can just take it at gunpoint.

Then you’d still be paying rent, just to the government instead which will mostly go towards paying administrators that don’t care or do anything just like current landlords

Who says the housing has to be centrally administered? Housing could absolutely be organized by local collectives in charge of the maintenance of the buildings after its construction, likely in the form of democratically elected councils. As an example, most access to housing in the USSR was through the work's union, not through the central government.

Unless you mean all social government owned housing should be free

No, people should pay costs to maintain it. For example, rent in the USSR was about 3% of the monthly income. Seems much better than what I pay now!

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

See there’s an issue you want a one size fits all that’s never going to happen

It's happened historically in several countries, whereas georgism has happened in a total of 0.

Well through public ridicule or at gunpoint I’d imagine

Great. Now, who are the people organizing and agitating the workers to gather the numbers and strength to do this at gunpoint? Hint: again, not the Georgists

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 4 days ago (5 children)

you will barely find anyone outside your family willing to lend you a home

Yes, that's why housing ownership should primarily be socialized, and access to affordable rent should be a right guaranteed by the public administration as much as healthcare and education.

rent is close to or less than 4% of property value annually

That's still a worthless metric, though, rent should be proportional to construction costs + maintenance, not subjected to markets.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 10 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Six paragraphs of you not understanding the issue: the problem is not the concept of renting a living space for a given time, the problem is private rent, i.e. rent for the landowner's profit.

Every single problem with current rent could be solved by socializing housing and making it available to rent at production+maintenance prices, and people could still move freely without being tied to a house in particular, without the risk of being evicted, would be able to paint the walls and have pets...

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Nothing. Abolish all private rent and socialize it

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 4 points 4 days ago (7 children)

Yes, you can choose to die on the streets instead. What's your point?

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 5 points 4 days ago

most people will always seek to extract as much as they can from something while giving as little back as they can

This is a fairly new phenomenon during capitalism, though. People lived in community, sharing everything and contributing without measurement of work, for the longest time in human history. It's only class society that created the breeding ground for such behavior, it's not human nature, it's caused by the environment.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 4 points 4 days ago (8 children)

Meh. I'm a commie, and it's just a half measure. It attacks the problem of landlordism, sure, but it doesn't fight concentration of wealth in other forms, such as financial capital, capitalist ownership of media and means of production, or even climate change.

Moreover, it doesn't provide any means for organizing and actually carrying out the policy, which is why it never happens. Ideology and politics aren't exclusively a theoretical field in which we can democratically test every policy without disturbance, and Georgism doesn't answer the simple question: why would the landlords in power allow the workers to tax them our of power?

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 4 days ago

Georgism: "let's introduce immense taxes to landlords"

You: "this is neutral and apolitical! I hate the left!"

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 2 points 4 days ago (5 children)

Both can be done, though. There's more demand for dense housing in cities than there is availability. Simultaneously build millions of housing units for social rent and cap existing prices or directly expropriate rented housing.

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 0 points 4 days ago (13 children)

How's there nothing wrong with paying rent? Why is someone else appropriating the fruits of MY labor just because they happen to be lucky enough to inherit a house?

[–] Riverside@reddthat.com 8 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Why wouldn't it be a problem paying rent to a normal person? Being a slave in Rome 2000 years ago, you were a slave regardless of whether you were owned by a small owner with just a few slaves, than one with 200.

view more: ‹ prev next ›