Building apps without using code is still programming, since you must create logic for the program.
this post was submitted on 03 Dec 2025
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Literally nothing of consequence has been built with visual, mda or no-code paradigms.
Well let me tell you, the things built in the vibe-cpdong paradigm will have consequences
The most consistent and highest paying jobs I've had are replacing or fixing legacy and garbage systems. I don't think the current gen llm's are anywhere close to being able to do those jobs, and is in fact causing those jobs to have more work the more insecure, inefficient trash they generate.
Fellow tech-trash-disposal-engineer here. I've made a killing on replacing corporate anti-patterns. My career features such hits and old-time classics like:
- email as workflow
- email as version control
- email as project management
- email as literally anything other than email
- excel as an relational database
- excel as project management
- help, our wiki is out of control
- U-drive as a multi-user collaboration solution
- The CEO's nephew wrote this 8 years ago and we can't get rid of it
In all of these cases, there were always better answers that maybe just cost a little bit more. AI will absolutely cause some players to train-wreck their business, all to save a buck, and we'll all be there to help clean up. Count on it.
It depends on the methodology. If you're trying to do a direct port. You're probably approaching it wrong.
What matters to the business most is data, your business objects and business logic make the business money.
If you focus on those parts and port portions at a time, you can substantially lower your tech debt and improve developer experiences, by generating greenfield code which you can verify, that follows modern best practices for your organization.
One of the main reasons many users are complaining about quality of code edited my agents comes down to the current naive tooling. Most using sloppy find/replace techniques with regex and user tools. As AI tooling improves, we are seeing agents given more IDE-like tools with intimate knowledge of your codebase using things like code indexing and ASTs. Look into Serena, for example.
When growing up in the 70's "computer programmers" were assumed to be geniuses. Nowadays they are maybe one tier above fast food workers. What a world!
That environment was wild though. At the time, you basically needed to be an electrical engineer and/or a licensed HAM operator, just to have your head wrapped around how it all worked. Familiarity with the very electronics of the thing, even modifying the hardware directly when needed, was crucial to operating that old tech.
Nowadays they are maybe one tier above fast food workers.
:-/
Having worked both jobs, I could point to a few differences
Food is essential, the new shiny way to gobble more RAM to display a blue mushroom in a button isn't.
Yeah fast food is a lot more stressful.
Every single job in my entire life I have made more money, and my workload has gotten easier. I am grateful everyday I escaped the trap. Very few do.
Well to be fair if you're a programmer in the 70s you might as well be a genius.
I’m still waiting to be replaced by robots and computers.
My company recently acquired another firm that tried to outsource the entire IT department and proceeded to shit itself to death.
Go ahead cowards. Replace me with a computer. I will become more powerful than you could ever imagine.
Feeling that. My company is off shoring and out sourcing a lot of stuff now. It’s a nightmare. But profits are up. So hey, who cares if the software is held together with hopes and dreams. And our hosted services admins don’t have a clue.
This is why I half ass things with AI. Mgmt clearly doesn’t care.
If only this wasn't becoming the agenda of big corporations...they are dropping jobs left and right and it's scary. Robots will be doing most of our jobs sooner than later...lookup flippy bot we won't even have entry level jobs soon and the problem is we're not doing this to become more like star trek. They are doing this to add seventeen more marble gold diamond pillars to their dogs puppies houses on their 9000 acre private islands.
Explicit programmers are needed because the general public has failed to learn programming. Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.
This comes all from programmers using programs to abstract programming away.
What if the 2030s change the approach and use AI to teach everybody how to program?
the general public has failed to learn programming
That's like saying that the general public has failed to learn surgery, or the general public has failed to learn chemical engineering.
There are certain things that it just doesn't make sense for the general public to ever be expected to learn.
People bake and learn basic chemistry. The baseline of general programming knowledge could be more than zero. It's a fundamental part of our society.
Baking is not chemical engineering. Chemical engineering doesn't even have much to do with chemistry. It's mostly about temperatures and flow rates, pressure, etc.
Saying "the baseline of programming knowledge could be more than zero" is meaningless. The baseline of chemical engineering knowledge could also be more than zero. It's also a fundamental part of our society. But, the average person doesn't need to know how to program, just like the average person doesn't need to know how to design a refinery.
People do learn some basic computer skills. They should learn more. They should know about files. They should know how to back up their data. And, more importantly, they should learn how to restore data from a backup after something goes wrong. They should know how to properly update their devices, how to tell if their devices are infected, and the basics of managing a home network. They sometimes learn how to do basic functions in excel spreadsheets. That's about as far as they do, or should need to go in programming / IT. Beyond that, why should the average person need to know how to do recursion, or how loops work?
If you look at "I didn't have eggs" you'll quickly figure out that very few people are learning chemistry from baking/cooking.
I memorized by rote the chord progressions in my favorite style of music. This does not mean I understand music theory at all.
I I I I IV IV I I V IV I IV
You nailed it ok.
Worse than that, I don't even really know how they relate to each other, I just know "key of C" means C, F, G. I actually even went so far as to write each major key progression down with my cheater chord pics.
What if the 2030s change the approach and use AI to teach everybody how to program?
What does AI (already known to be an unreliable bullshitting machine) provide to students that existing tutorials, videos and teachers do not already?
Also the companies investing in AI are not trying to teach their workers to be better, they're trying to make more profit by replacing workers or artificially increasing their outputs. Teaching people to program is not what they care about
Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.
This is a very important point, that most of my colleagues with OOP background seem to miss. They build a bunch of abstractions and then say it's easy, because we have one liner in calling code, pretending that the rest of the code doesn't exist. Oh yes, it certainly exists! And needs to be maintained, too.
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