this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2025
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[–] kilorat@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

It's weird how he states it so plainly, yet people misunderstand it. It's not for everyone. Some people specifically are willing to work at an unstable startup company, and can commit long hours in exchange for ownership of the company. They get a big reward if things go well. If the company just paid a paycheck, that would be exploitative. he's not talking about a shitty job where you're asked to work long hours because some rich assholes need line to go up. It's totally valid to want just a stable job where you go in, do your fucking job, then go home, and get paid, then live your passions outside of work. Get that work/life balance, that should be your choice. This guy is not talking about that kind of job. You guys are a bit too extreme, it can be fulfilling to work hard and get rewarded, just because you had a bad experience working for an exploitative big company doesn't mean all work is like that. If you have a lot of shares, then you're part owner. If they don't offer equity then fuck that, they can't expect anyone to put up with long hours, and what kind of cuck would get enjoyment about making other people rich?

[–] sobchak@programming.dev 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

80 hours/week is not sustainable. Anyone who truly works that will be burnt out in short order. Research shows long work hours are counterproductive, especially in "creative" types of work such as engineering. A lot of startup founders have pretty strong anti-dillution protections while the employees don't. 90% of startups just fail, 10% "succeed" but most don't pay out significant amounts to employees (and are then often laid off), and maybe 1-2% have explosive growth that may pay off enough for the employees to offset their initial sacrifice.

[–] kilorat@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

It's not sustainable, but with startups the goal is to either get big, or fail, over the span of a few years. You're not supposed to be at that level forever. If someone tries to that, we would call them a workaholic, and they will probably later regret not seeing more of the world while they were still young.

[–] Vreyan31@reddthat.com 1 points 6 days ago

Startups typically have to offer both higher pay and a lot of shares.

[–] darkmarx@lemmy.world 366 points 1 week ago (13 children)

Every year, we do an employee survey to see how management is doing; like a report card for management. In the last 3 years, mine has come back with the highest company scores for employee engagement, job satisfaction, and project completion rate. I was asked to give a presentation to the other officers and managers about things I do to get those scores.

The presentation was basically one slide that I expanded to 10. It came down to creating the expectation, for the folks who report to me, that a work week is 37.5 hours (our full-time week) and no more. I make it clear that if my team is working overtime, I've failed. If that happens, together we look at their project commitments and reduce the workload, or get training, or whatever is needed.

Working folks to the point of burnout is NEVER a valid solution. Respecting personal time pays dividends to everyone. It's amazing how treating people like adults makes them happier and more productive. It's such a low bar and yet seems so foreign to people.

After my presentation, multiple execs argued thar I'd get more done if I pushed my team harder. Our company President pulled up all of our project completion rates, and asked them to explain the discrepancy. The three who complained the most about my approach were in the bottom five.

Data continually shows people are happy when they have a solid, predictable, work life balance. Happy people are more productive and are willing to do more in the long run. And they stick around, so you don't have to keep looking for new employees. Everyone wins. Yet, there is such a resistance to it by certain people, and I don't understand why.

Tldr: Expecting your people to give up their personal life for work, it's a clear sign that you are a terrible leader.

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 136 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Yet, there is such a resistance to it by certain people, and I don’t understand why.

People are emotional driven. It might be something like "I worked 80 hour weeks. If I accept that that wasn't the right move, then I have to admit I fucked up. I'm a good smart person. I don't fuck up. Thus, this idea is wrong and I reject it"

[–] Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 54 points 1 week ago (1 children)

sounds like how my parents rationalize my childhood

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[–] fubarx@lemmy.world 81 points 1 week ago (8 children)

I make it clear that if my team is working overtime, I've failed.

Bingo!

This was my attitude too. If anyone has to work late or weekends, it was a failure in resource allocation, which is a management function.

The only exception was if people had to get on late night calls with people in other timezones, in which case they were expected to take the equivalent time off at their own convenience.

Another easy win is bullshit agile daily standups. I made them twice a week, and no longer than 15 minutes and only to cover potential blockers, not status reports. That alone made everyone happier. In one case, the team finished a project that had been languishing for three years in three months and shipped it out.

It's really about respecting people's time.

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[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 170 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Sounds exploitative because it is. Just because work is your entire personality doesn’t mean every one else’s should be too. Fucking tool

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[–] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 142 points 1 week ago (9 children)

Dude, you're pulling 80 hour weeks for your company. That you own. Expecting the same input from people who will never see as much as a percentage of what you stand to make off of their success is delusional. But I suppose delusion is almost a requirement for these kind of people.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 77 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Personally theory.....

Many startups fail because people try to work 80+hrs per week. Biologically more than about 25-30 hours of work is usually a waste of time. You can occasionally pull a long week but then you need to rest and recover to get back to full productivity. If you push beyond it often, you'll make a shit ton of stupid mistakes that completely nullify all your efforts.

If you've ever been around someone "working" on hour 70+ during a week you'll know what I mean. A five minute tasks takes them an hour and they generally fuck it up.

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 107 points 1 week ago (37 children)

"I work 80 hrs for my own business and I expect everyone else to do so...on a regular salary"

[–] elbiter@lemmy.world 86 points 1 week ago (1 children)

CEOs think their time at restaurants count as working hours

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[–] SubArcticTundra@lemmy.ml 92 points 1 week ago (7 children)

I'd only be willing to put in long hours for little pay at a startup if they agreed to give me shares in the company when I left.

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[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 79 points 1 week ago

If you work 80+h and it doesn't feel like work, then maybe playing golf and eating out doesn't magically turn into work just because you write it off as work expenses.

[–] Darkard@lemmy.world 65 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

"No no, you don't understand. You shouldn't have a family, you have to flog yourself to death for this startup company that's making a Gym Membership app. If you don't neglect your kids to vibe code a scheduling system then you just don't deserve a job and you and your family should just die"

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[–] SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 59 points 1 week ago

Massive impact on the world. Lol. Says the guy who makes another SaaS bs solution.

[–] Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 59 points 1 week ago (16 children)

I feel like anyone who says they love their work so much it doesn't feel like work just doesn't have an actual life that they like to live so work just beats out not working everytime.

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[–] Zink@programming.dev 55 points 1 week ago

I mean, the douchebag CEO isn't exactly wrong.

I myself very much want a good work-life balance, therefore I do not apply for jobs to be one of the first ten people working for a CEO that thinks they're going to change the world.

He did a big favor for that candidate by not hitting him.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 54 points 1 week ago

It sounds exploitative because it is exploitative!

[–] rozodru@lemmy.world 52 points 1 week ago (5 children)

looking at the douchebags profile he's also a, surprise surprise, massive advocate for AI with a recent post stating that gpt5 is a "massive change for humanity"

He has the usual tech bro posts with the usual bootlicker middle managers commenting support. Christ on a cracker I wish I could close my linkedin account.

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