this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2025
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[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (9 children)
[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (4 children)
[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm not being ironic. No one ever answers this question.

[–] whoisearth@lemmy.ca 2 points 23 hours ago

Didn't think you were and agree. Answers you will get are always the same.

"Well if we ever gave system XYZ a fair shake!"

I'd argue the problem isn't the system and never was. The problem is human nature. Any system can be corrupted.

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[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 2 points 23 hours ago

I mean there were a bunch of regulations that helped reduce these issues in the US but they've been chipped away over time so they are less effective.

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[–] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Advocates of capitalism 50 years ago: you dont understand! Caputalism is good bevause people arent, and capitalism harnesses our vices to make us productive! It turns our vices into virtues!

Advocates of capitalism today: no we dont need to get rid of it, we just need to fix it and add virtue and decency! Oh shit, i need to go out today, where's my gas mask and iodine?

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 1 day ago (51 children)

So when the communist party came into power after the Bolshevik revolution, Wilson went to the League of Nations to negotiate a common embargo of the Soviet project, essentially sanctioning Russia the way we might sanction a nation for humanitarian wrongdoing.

This is to say Wilson was afraid of it actually working, which would jeopardize the industrial moguls who were already running the US.

This is also to say, the Soviet Union was doing a communism in hostile circumstances, much the way European monarchs pressured France to raise a new king after the revolution (leading to Napoleon's rise to power, the Levée en masse (general conscription) and the War of the First Coalition (or as is modernly known, Napoleon Kicks European Butt For A While ).

Historians can't really say, but the fact the red scare started with Wilson (and not after WWII) might have influenced events, including the corruption of the party and the rise of Stalin as an autocrat.

Also according to Prof. Larry Lessig, Boss Tweed in the 1850s worked to make sure the ownership class called all the shots in the United States, eventually driving us to Hoover and the Great Depression. FDR's New Deal (very much resented by the industrialists) was a last chance for Capitalism, which then got a boost because WWII commanded high levels of production and distracted us with a foreign enemy. Then the cold war.

So communism was really unlucky and didn't get a fair shake in the Soviet Union, and US free market capitalism got especially lucky in the 20th century, and we don't really know if either one can be held together for more than a century or two. EU capitalism is wavering, thanks to pressure from the far right, and neoliberalism failing to serve the public.

In the meantime, check out what's going on in Cuba, which isn't perfect, but is interesting.

[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Command-economy communism is an absolute joke and a terrible idea.

[–] sobchak@programming.dev 4 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

I agree, but very large corporations (like WalMart and Amazon with high levels of vertical integration and revenue greater than the GDP of many countries) are kind of like a command-economies and "work" (for the shareholders). So, I think command-economies can work, but the question is for whom.

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

It really depends. China is winning the race on sustainable energy because it's treating it the way the US treated the Space Race after Sputnik.

And we are seeing how market economies go, the the outcome is dire.

I don't know what works, but obviously neither do you. Neither do our elected representatives who are captured by interests to return to monarchy (which can command the economy).

So that's, just, like, your opinion, man.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 0 points 17 hours ago

China has also been leading in increased demand for coal and petrol, and recently reversed their stance on population limiting policy.

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[–] miss_demeanour@lemmy.dbzer0.com 36 points 2 days ago
[–] scarabic@lemmy.world 23 points 1 day ago (30 children)

It’s the best system when combined with strong regulation and good social safety nets. I wish everybody would focus on those things falling down and needing to be fixed instead of pretending we’re going to throw the whole system out tomorrow.

[–] Evkob@lemmy.ca 22 points 1 day ago (5 children)

It’s the best system when combined with strong regulation and good social safety nets.

Sure, it's just too bad it's also a system in which the most powerful are incentivized to cut regulations and destroy social safety nets.

This utopic version of capitalism sounds really nice, but it's fully incompatible with the actual reality of capitalism.

[–] Alaknar@sopuli.xyz 13 points 1 day ago (3 children)

This utopic version of capitalism sounds really nice, but it’s fully incompatible with the actual reality of capitalism.

All it takes for capitalism to work flawlessly is... checks notes... a fundamental change in human nature, where we no longer feel greed.

EZPZ. Best system ever designed!

(don't tell anyone that this would equally make communism work)

[–] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

If a socio-economic system incentives greed to the point where a person who is not greedy is literally unable to succeed, can you really say that greed is human nature?

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[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

a fundamental change in human nature, where we no longer feel greed.

What's your alternative system?

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[–] MiddleAgesModem@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

That's not "utopic" it's how it exists right now in a number of Western countries.

The government is supposed to respond to the people. In Europe, it more often does. In the US, complacent/ignorant/lazy people do nothing to demand the government provide for the people. Instead, they waste time on the internet pretending that command-economy communism would magically be better.

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