this post was submitted on 16 Jun 2025
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THE POLICE PROBLEM

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    The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

    99.9999% of police brutality, corruption, and misconduct is never investigated, never punished, never makes the news, so it's not on this page.

    When cops are caught breaking the law, they're investigated by other cops. Details are kept quiet, the officers' names are withheld from public knowledge, and what info is eventually released is only what police choose to release — often nothing at all.

    When police are fired — which is all too rare — they leave with 'law enforcement experience' and can easily find work in another police department nearby. It's called "Wandering Cops."

    When police testify under oath, they lie so frequently that cops themselves have a joking term for it: "testilying." Yet it's almost unheard of for police to be punished or prosecuted for perjury.

    Cops can and do get away with lawlessness, because cops protect other cops. If they don't, they aren't cops for long.

    The legal doctrine of "qualified immunity" renders police officers invulnerable to lawsuits for almost anything they do. In practice, getting past 'qualified immunity' is so unlikely, it makes headlines when it happens.

    All this is a path to a police state.

    In a free society, police must always be under serious and skeptical public oversight, with non-cops and non-cronies in charge, issuing genuine punishment when warranted.

    Police who break the law must be prosecuted like anyone else, promptly fired if guilty, and barred from ever working in law-enforcement again.

    That's the solution.

♦ ♦ ♦

Our definition of ‘cops’ is broad, and includes prison guards, probation officers, shitty DAs and judges, etc — anyone who has the authority to fuck over people’s lives, with minimal or no oversight.

♦ ♦ ♦

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♦ ♦ ♦

ALLIES

!abolition@slrpnk.net

!acab@lemmygrad.ml

r/ACAB

r/BadCopNoDonut/

Randy Balko

The Civil Rights Lawyer

The Honest Courtesan

Identity Project

MirandaWarning.org

♦ ♦ ♦

INFO

A demonstrator's guide to understanding riot munitions

Adultification

Cops aren't supposed to be smart

Don't talk to the police.

Killings by law enforcement in Canada

Killings by law enforcement in the United Kingdom

Killings by law enforcement in the United States

Know your rights: Filming the police

Three words. 70 cases. The tragic history of 'I can’t breathe' (as of 2020)

Police aren't primarily about helping you or solving crimes.

Police lie under oath, a lot

Police spin: An object lesson in Copspeak

Police unions and arbitrators keep abusive cops on the street

Shielded from Justice: Police Brutality and Accountability in the United States

So you wanna be a cop?

When the police knock on your door

♦ ♦ ♦

ORGANIZATIONS

Black Lives Matter

Campaign Zero

Innocence Project

The Marshall Project

Movement Law Lab

NAACP

National Police Accountability Project

Say Their Names

Vera: Ending Mass Incarceration

 

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[–] andybytes@programming.dev 4 points 8 hours ago
[–] postcapitalism@lemmy.today 20 points 16 hours ago

The real answer is anytime you see ICE acting extra-judicially call the police to report masked armed men trespassing and assaulting people.

Be vague. You don’t know who they are, they look suspicious, they look like they are about to commit a crime, this could be an active shooter/crime in progress , pointed a gun at you…. You know facts.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 44 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

God damn, people. Didn't masked ICE agents snatch the New York City Comptroller and the migrant who had showed up for a hearing from the center of a heavily policed immigration court? Did anyone on the NYPD try and stop them?

You can see a local police officer in the fucking headline image. He's holding back the press and letting masked ICE agents do as thou wilt. If the local PD won't stick their necks out for a municipal senior official, what are the odds they're going to do it for you?

This, after a sitting US Senator was arrested during a press conference? Who are you fooling?

[–] Seasm0ke@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Still recommending it because if the pigs show up and kill the pigs everyone wins.

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 15 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (3 children)

That's not how it works. If local cops show up, they only assist ICE. The NYPD in this photo were Brad Lander's (Elected official being kidnapped) entourage. When ICE turned on him, they held the press back from ICE and then the senior member of their group cooperated with ICE and left the building alongside them and Lander. No asking for ID, no asking for a warrant from them, zero resistance, only assistance.

If the Dems want to actually exercise their right to resist a kidnapping they should be showing up with private security, or exercising their own 2A rights (Something that pretty much only politicians and friends of cops can do in NYC because NYPD gets constitutionally-questionable veto power on gun permits). But I'm guessing that is exactly what the Trump regime is waiting for. They will send in the national guard once that happens.

[–] Seasm0ke@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Good comment . I was being too flippant.

[–] ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 3 points 14 hours ago

Didn't they already send in the national guard and marines into L.A.? I don't think he feels the need to wait for us to actually start shooting these thugs.

[–] WarmSoda@lemmy.world 2 points 14 hours ago

Great point

[–] RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world 22 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

Normally I'm not the guy to say it, but if you don't own a gun, you may want to change that.

[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 15 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

...if you live in the US. If you live elsewhere, please don't own a gun. We really don't want to get that snowball rolling.

[–] buttnugget@lemmy.world 5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

Do you think people outside of the US should worry about ICE kidnapping them off the street?

[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 2 points 8 hours ago

Absolutely not, but american trends have a thing for affecting the rest of the world. There are a lot of conflicts around in Europe as well, which could make people seek ways to protect themselves and their families. And I hope that introducing guns as some household item is not something that happens in Europe anytime soon.

[–] RedditIsDeddit@lemmy.world 3 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

Good luck with that argument.

[–] Noodle07@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Good luck getting a gun in most places

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[–] chiliedogg@lemmy.world 74 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Dial 911 first, and say there's a masked person with a gun. No need to qualify that shit.

[–] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 29 points 1 day ago

My thoughts exactly. You think gestapo is gonna wait patiently while you call 911?

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[–] okamiueru@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (20 children)

If one of the possible answers to your question is "yes, I am indeed armed, and committing a felony by impersonating a law enforcement officer", you should reconsider your most recent life choices. In particular, asking them that question.

Observe from a safe distance, and call 911. What on earth do you hope to gain by going up to them for a chat?

excuuuuuuuse me. Are you actually taking people hostages? Or is this some kind of publicity stunt? Hellooo?! Are you really shooting at me? That's just, like, so rude.

so rude

Well, it is.

[–] musubibreakfast@lemm.ee 10 points 1 day ago

These sort of tactics might work if you're with a large group in a public space, if you're one person then it might not be the best idea. Honestly a lot of this stuff is highly context dependent.

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[–] PlagueShip@lemmy.world 5 points 17 hours ago

And if they won't show proof of being police, bite the face. It really makes them think twice.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 22 points 1 day ago (4 children)

It would be incredible if we could get through a lawsuit to news stations anytime they make bad assumptions in articles. They continually write "Federal agents detained ..." when they should be writing "A team of unidentified individuals in masks and armor detained ..."

Just as they are always meant to write "The suspect" not "The criminal". Nothing must be assumed in reporting (exceptions allowed if they've contacted ICE headquarters and received a confirmation of them)

[–] Crikeste@lemm.ee 8 points 1 day ago

The media is the 4th branch, they won’t report on these things until they have to. And even then, they’ll find a way to delegitimize.

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[–] onesixone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

How does this post even make sense in this community? literally written in the sidebar:

The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 15 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

This is a SLIGHTLY different case than what the sidebar mentions.

Yes, asking asking the police to investigate themselves is a non-starter.

This post is advocating turning the state/local police against ICE, a federal agency.

I agree, it's unlikely to make a difference. But if you call 9-1-1 and report "Masked men in an unmarked car just kidnapped someone", it's way different from asking internal affairs to investigate another cop.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

This post is advocating turning the state/local police against ICE, a federal agency.

More than 600 local police agencies are partnering with ICE: See if yours is one of them

[–] ulterno@programming.dev 3 points 8 hours ago

They use FUD against us.
Perhaps we can too?

Nah who'm I kidding
The ICE and Police are more organised while kidnapping people than they would be when trying to arrest an actual criminal.

[–] MisterOwl@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

I love living in Illinois.

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[–] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

Like they,are going to give you the time to do this shit.

[–] UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You ever notice how they stand with their hands covering their badges and name plates?

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[–] sudo@programming.dev 247 points 1 day ago (27 children)

Utterly delusional to think any of that would work. At every step you would just get your face beaten in. When the cops come they too will just beat your face in.

Thinking you can castle doctrine a squad of ICE agents is equally delusional. You could probably take a couple out but you'd still die in the end and be risking the lives of anyone that lives with you.

The only solution is well known and already in practice in places like LA: have an active community response force that will show up and intimidate and harass the ICE agents. All of the previous delusions assume you, alone, can stop an ICE with just your privledge.

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[–] I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world 100 points 1 day ago (7 children)

If a person impersonating a cop spouted out some random digits when I asked for their badge and serial number, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.

[–] Chip_Rat@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

Exactly. I had some undercover (or plain clothes I guess?) cops show up at my workplace looking for one of my guys. I asked to see their badge and they showed me a badge but honestly, that's only gonna stop someone who didn't plan far enough ahead. The badge could have been from the dollar store and I would have a hard time refuting....

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