[Vote] Clear the federation blacklist (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works to c/agora@sh.itjust.works

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There's been plenty of discussion on defederation.

I propose we defederate no instance other than those with egregiously illegal content such as CP. Note that I know of no such instances.

As of the moment of this post, the only defederated instance is lemmygrad.ml, so voting Yea would refederate them. It's a genocide-denying Marxist instance.

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[-] Shihali@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Nay.

I see the argument for defederating from instances with no active administration because they could start hosting egregiously illegal content at any time without recourse. And after going through the initial Hexbear wave I am for defederating instances with a strong trolling and brigading culture until we can allowlist on an individual basis. (This sounds rather like Beehaw, doesn't it?)

[-] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago

When exploding heads is federated but lemmygrad not something is wrong.

[-] darkwing_duck@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Agreed, hence this (apparently super mega unpopular) vote.

[-] LudwigvanBeethoven@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Nay, quite simply EH, Grad, and (currently voting) Hexbear are not moderating to a standard required by the rules of this instance.

Also IIRC this [Vote] post will not count, start a [Discussion] instead. (Check the "Changes to the Agora" post).

[-] atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Nay.

"Everything that is legal" sounds good in theory, but isn't great in practice. Holding instances to some reasonable minimum threshold is important to foster a community. We shouldn't set that bar too low (or too high).

[-] MomoTimeToDie@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 year ago

“Everything that is legal” sounds good in theory, but isn’t great in practice

I have yet to see any reason to agree with this

[-] rektifier@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

Nay for now. While there's a few communities on lemmygrad that I want to see like Late Stage Capitalism, lemmygrad has been defederated since day one, and all of us (should) have known this when we joined, so there's no hurry to refederate with them.

The real solution is for Lemmy to let users block instances from their own view, then all the defederation discussions will be moot. When that happens, we should do as you proposed - federate as much as permitted by law.

[-] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I still think this is naive in the face of real information warfare. This feels like saying "Nazis are welcome here but they aren't allowed on the second floor so if you don't want to see them stick to that."

Eventually the Nazis will just drive everyone else away and take over the second floor as well. Because the Nazis have no such holdups about acting in good faith.

I believe that communities must take measures to actively protect themselves, particularly from those who would abuse a community's values in order to remake them. I don't think the abstract threat of slippery slopes rises to the real threat posed by those who continually demonstrate a proclivity for subterfuge and sabotage.

[-] rektifier@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I should clarify. When the skinheads from the Nazi house down the street come over to visit, they must follow our instance-wide and community rules. This should be a basic fediquette for everyone. If they repeatedly fail to do that then we will have to defederate them. But if they check the swastika at the door and keep the Nazism to themselves while they're here, I don't see why not. Most of the calls for defederation so far have been about people not wanting to see activities happening on remote communities on certain instances.

[-] Socsa@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Ok but how many times will we make the mistake of letting the Nazis in the front door before we learn this lesson?

this post was submitted on 20 Jun 2023

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