Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West's role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term "rules-based international order." It is in the Left's interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to "dismantle western propaganda" and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
“I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.”
“All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.”
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
Every fucking "social security" that exists in the western world was achieved by those of us that wave the red flag ffs. 5 day week? Socialists. Most of your holidays? Socialists. Worker protections? Socialists. The length of your work day? Socialists. Healthcare? Socialists. Eliminating child labour? Socialists. The list goes on and on and on.
And inclusiveness? How the fuck do you work out that the only lemmy that has visible pronouns is not inclusive? 20-30% of the userbase is trans ffs. It's MORE inclusive that this instance which has left transphobic and hateful posts up for many hours at a time on occasion. The post that looked like a relic from r/fatpeoplehate was up for 12 hours before it got taken down.
A prominent example you left out: American politicians and the billionaire-owned media don't like when someone brings it up, but the man who more than anyone else has been hailed by the establishment as the embodiment of peaceful struggle for civil rights, Martin Luther King Jr, was a pro-union socialist and would have been as disgusted by the neoliberal hypocrites in charge of the Dems as the blatant racists of the far right
There's a user down in the comments with a history of transphobic garbage bragging about not having been banned yet. Liberal inclusivity.
ffs
Which union movements led to the implementation of those policies and who were the prominent leaders of the unions in those movements? Maybe look into whose blood was spilled in the streets fighting for it too.
Linking to a wikipedia page and vaguely gesturing is functionally meaningless.
Maybe look up the International Workingmen's Association, and the 8 hour day movement, which followed the Nine Hours Movement of 1871–72. Or read a little about where the weekend comes from.
None of those unions had liberal or conservative leaders numbnuts. They were built by socialists, just like all the new unions you're seeing pop up today. The Amazon union? Chris Smalls? They read lenin mate.
Don't forget our militant labor anarchists as well, they also did a ton of work building up unions in the west.
Yeah for the sake of the historical battle I'm including everyone under the banner. Honestly not much infighting at that time other than at the intelligentsia level, which is obviously different to the organising and ground level.
I know because I personally spoke to him when he came over to the UK to help with some strike action that was happening here, Coventry if I recall correctly? But I guess you want video or some shit? Hasan and Chris Smalls quoting and big-ing up Lenin on stage?
Yes. Communism is good and capitalism is bad. All of human history shows revolutions caused by class struggle drive forward human progress from one stage of society to the next. Communism will win. It is inevitable. No matter how many of us that you kill off.
Labour unions are not the same as a communist party or vanguard but to claim they're not mostly organized and consisting of socialists is just immensely naive and stupid.
You know, as a general internet arguing advice, when you have no points to make anymore, and the response you write to the other person is literally just a bunch of insults, it's probably better to just disengage.
You know you’re really arguing with an intellectual heavyweight when they keep quoting Wikipedia
Did communists steal your grandfathers farm or something?
The welfare state was a response to the militant labor movement that had already won most of those concessions for their own members and were threatening to do a lot more. This dovetailed with a need to counter the very real welfare state pioneeted by the Soviets decades earlier.
An easy place to begin informing yourself is to read up on FDR and where his motivations for The New Deal came from, and who he wanted to defang.
I'm actually implying that he was an anticommunist and that The New Deal was an attempt to mollify more radical elements, including militant labor.
Communist countries, i.e. those run by a communist party, have consistently punched above their weight, particularly considering the relentless attacks they face.
For example, compare the struggles of Haiti to those of Cuba. Haiti has suffered under neocolonialism and with basically zero counterweight to the constant imperialism directed at them, including still being forced to pay debts to France for their own liberation from a slave colony and undergoing several Western-supported coups, on top of the constant drain of resources and underpaid labor that come with the territory of exploitation by international capital.
Cuba, despite blanket sanctions and constant targeting by the global seat of capital for over half a century, provides massively better lives for its people, with better literacy and infant mortality than the US. It's still a poor country, understandably, but it teaches a simple lesson about how international capital actually functions for imperialized countries.
Happy to answer more questions.