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voting this year so voting continues to be a thing
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 26 Apr 2024
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"Hey, if we let Republicans destroy our country, it will actually help us in the long run. Trust me bro."
Yeah fuck that bullshit.
It's called "accelerationism" for those who wish to understand more. It's dangerous thinking.
Accelerationism is definitely real, but absolutely wasn't what I was referring to in any manner.
When did I say that? Never. I said Biden isn't a positive change, you cannot get positive change electorally, so you need outside pressure.
Voting Democrat is what I am most likely going to do, I am just not delusional enough to think he will reverse Capitalism's decay.
I took this to mean that you want the State to get worse so people will start a revolution. Maybe I misunderstood.
No, the state will get worse regardless. I want people to strike, unionize, organize, and pressure the state as best they can, and I do believe revolution is the best way to get there, but I don't think the path there is to intentionally vote for bad policy so everyone suffers even more, lol.
Like I said, I will almost certainly be voting for Biden, but the idea that Biden is "slow, positive change" cannot be the prevailing thought process if we want actual change to occur. Biden is slow, negative change while Trump is fast negative change.
You think Biden is making the nation worse? Seriously? Have you paid attention at all?
You're remarkably bad at reading.
Capitalism is in decline. Continuing Capitalism continues this decline. Slight bumps upward on a downward trend line does not reverse the dowmward trend. Make sense when put that way for you?
Would it kill you to actually engage with leftist ideas, rather than run away the second you don't have an actual response, by the way?
Verbatim. So Biden is not bad for the nation? It's an upward trend? And this is...bad?
Reading is hard for you. Biden has occasional upward ticks on an overall downward trend, he isn't an upward trend. If the ship is sinking and you don't fix the holes, there isn't an upward trend.
I read words, not minds.
Is Biden making this country better, or worse?
The country is getting worse, and he is not reversing that trend. By maintaining Capitalism, he is participating in making it worse. Occasionally he comes out with a nice act or law, but within the broader context of the direction the country is going, it matters little.
I've said the same thing 3 times now, you're not getting another.
Okay. So it's impossible for Biden to make anything better unless he undoes capitalism? Any good things he does are overshadowed by capitalism?
Isn't that a bit dogmatic? You're mistaking the means (socialism) for the ends (better society, happier people).
He can alleviate some of its pains, but he cannot make things better overall without moving towards Worker Ownership.
I am not mistaking the means for the ends, the ends are achieved via means, and if Capitalism is currently continuing to decline then the ends cannot be achieved without moving towards Socialism.
You're ignoring the "if" though. We have clear examples of how capitalism can succeed in the Scandinavian countries (I would call them socialist, but you would say they're not, we've had this discussion). If Capitalism in the US moves in that direction, would you be willing to abandon socialism because we have a better path to societal happiness?
Social Democracies still depend on Imperialism to subidize their safety nets, still see decay (albeit at a lower rate), and still have the inherent exploitation of Capitalism. If you could fix Capitalism, I would be the first in line, haha.
Can you elaborate on all those points?
What empire does Scandinavia have?
What signs of "decay" do you see?
What do you mean by exploitation?
Scandinavian countries export industrial and financial Capital to the Global South, to Super-Exploit internationally for domestic Super-Profits.
Scandinavian countries have seen decreasing social safety nets and rising inequality.
Capitalism inherently contains the exploitation of the Worker by the Owner, where the Owner pays the Worker less than the value the Worker creates, and profits from that difference.
So the path forward is killing people? Because that's what revolution entails. Once the killings start they tend to be indiscriminate and less about idealism than consolidating power. There's a long history of revolution, and I can't think of a single one that didn't go off the rails and devolve into insanity. What makes this revolution you're dreaming about different?
Revolution is the only way to meaningfully change whichever class is in power. It does not need to be violent, it can take on any number of forms.
Can you give an example of when a revolution wasn't violent? Just one. Ever. In the history of humanity?
You certainly can, by actually fucking voting. Not in a single election, granted, but over time. Currently we're choosing between fascist theocracy and democracy, because people who don't want to live in a fascist theocracy won't fucking vote. When they do vote, and fascist theocracy is no longer a viable position, we get to choose between corrupt capitalist democracy or social democracy.
I do vote. I have voted Democrat, and I will lilely still vote Democrat. Me voting Democrat will not make the Democrats move to the left, they will continue to be right-wingers because there is no leftist party and no reason for the Democrats to move left when they get their funding from large businesses and wealthy Capitalists.
We are choosing between fascism and liberalism. The reason this is an issue is not because "leftists don't vote,"* it's because the only parties that will ever be in power are parties that court wealthy Capitalists.
Even Social Democracy, while certainly better, would still repeat the same Capitalist decay. I would still vote for a Social Democrat over a Democrat, but I would still push for outside pressure like striking, unionizing, and straining the system so the will of the people will be upheld.