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this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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I get that people are super emotional about the upcoming election, i am too. But this kind of emotion, and the feelings i see posted on this thread have no use to anyone.
Why do we hate the people who are easily fooled rather than the people who are doing the fooling?
Will openly hating them and showing superperiority to them make them change or just make us feel better?
How long and how loudly will "left wing" voices need to be (voices like this tweet i mean), how open will their distaste for right wing (citizens) have to be, before we on the left start wondering whether the party we believe in has the "moral superiority"it claims to?
I am starting to feel like you could just switch a few words around and then the shit we believe about them and the shit they believe about is identical, in a fun house mirror kinda way
I think the post is literally implying that in previous elections, you absolutely could make the argument that people were being fooled, but that's no longer true. People voting for this guy are doing so not because they've been tricked, but because they want to and are doing so with open eyes.
Yeah. At this point (honestly by 2020 no matter what) there's no question. The only two possibilities are a multi-million-Democrat conspiracy against him, or the dude's guilty of 21 major crimes related to election theft.
But Trump voters actually support the idea that it's ok for the Republican to steal an election. Simple as that.
The problem is willful ignorance. A lot of Trump supporters knew better from day 1 and chose to be easily fooled. I had a friend when I was a kid who used to cheer on the defendants in court cases when he thought they were guilty of heinous crimes because they got to "fuck with the system" if they got off. People like that grew up to vote for Trump because he would "fuck with the system".
I think it's ok to hate someone who voted for Trump BECAUSE they wanted to elect an enemy of the majority. It might not be productive to hate them, but it's okay to.
We're dumb evil immoral pedophiles who are going to hell, and every time we try to cooperate with them in any way they backstab us and then blame us. What exactly are we losing standing up to them when they're going to punch us whether or not we do?
The concept is assymetry. The most obvious (Godwinian) example is to take virtually any anti-Nazi quote and intersperse the word "Jew". All of a sudden it becomes horrible and bigoted. You can absolutely then take any anti-Jew bigotry and say the word "Nazi", and it suddenly becomes just and true.
Why? Because Trump Supporters and Democrats ARE fundamentally different. The best answer to the paradox of tolerance says that tolerance is a social contract - we are to be tolerant to those others who accept to follow that contract, but it can be open season (in terms of intolerance, not violence) for those who do not.
I don't think that's true, at all. I've been lucky enough to have some conversations with Trump voters and they have indeed said some dumb ass shit. But nothing unexpected, they're all from fox n shit
After we get past the fox talking points and bullshit we are the same.
Sure, in a few cases. In others, it was more on the tune of:
"I voted for Trump because he's going to raise taxes on the poor so they pay their fair share"
or
"I voted for Trump because he promised to get rid of illegal immigrants. Just because there aren't many in my state doesn't mean they're not CRIMINALS who should be removed at all costs!"
or
"I voted for Trump because he's going to do some crazy stuff like leave the Paris Climate Agreement. This is going to be fucking entertaining and I'll have my popcorn. People are gonna get PISSSSSED"
or
"I really don't like Trump, but no politician is perfect and I'm willing to deal with Trump because he's going to help us finally ban abortion".
Need I keep going? I blame them all.
No, but you do need to take a deep breath, because you're talking a lot more than you're saying in anger.
Dont be angry at me for telling you this, that's not why I'm saying it. I'm saying it because i believe that anger is causing you to lose your objectivity.
And please, take one more breath if you're planning another diatribe... the whole point of my initial comment, to say we "shouldnt give in to the urge to dehumanize our opponents". Isnt an invitation for you to demonstrate precisely what i just said not to do.
I'm not angry right now. I'm just telling it like it is to me.
Please be careful not to think you read emotions into comments when they might not be there.
Interesting point. Here in the UK we tried providing fact checked information to everyone during Brexit. Look how that turned out.
I've come to the conclusion that i need to give up and let the right wingers be right wingers. That leaves one the option to feel superior, especially when those voting further right are clearly ignoring the facts, and can't claim they don't know about them.
The folks who have and will be profiting from brexit spent quite a bit of money convincing folks to vote against their best interests and leave. How can providing "boring" facts an interested party must search for be nearly as effective as an advert if they never become interested? Of course it cannot be as effective.
For our part it's fine to feel superior cuz it's a natural and necessary human emotion, but putting that frustration online like this is leaning into it. It feels nasty to me, and it makes me think of the low, the lowest quality comments i have seen in right wing spaces.
This meandering reply's only point is to say if we really want to dehumanize the opposition we had better take a fucking hard look at what that means and why
They were literally posted through people's doors.
Is your purpose to complain with me about humanities foibles or are you arguing against the point that stupid slogans and adverts on busses are more effective at manipulating people?
The latter would be an interesting conversation for sure, the former? Sure i agree it sucks but that's the way the world works right now. If it wasnt effective they're wouldn't be billions of dollars spent doing it.
My point is that people can be easily manipulated, a point you agree with. Taking it one step further, getting mad at millions of morons is useless! Useless to you i mean. It's very useful to the people doing the manipulating. It is such a useful thing, such a useful trick, for those whose jobs are to manipulate public opinion, that countless dollars are spent doing so. Of course, if they could, they would want to separate a large class of people whose only power is their numbers, right? Wouldn't that make sense? How, if they could, would they go about it?
Indeed, are you sure you haven't been manipulated into misplacing your anger? Regardless, focus your ire at the ones who stand to gain by ripping your country and people apart.