1480

An oldie, but a goodie

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Current-day Linus wouldn't react much differently. Cut the "shut the fuck up", the one or other "fuck" (but not all, some need to be there for emphasis), done. It's the real personal shit, the "should be aborted retroactively" stuff, that he cut out. "Obvious garbage and idiocy" is a technical term, programmers apply it to their own work all the time. Compilers are more technical in their language but we know what they mean.

And was this mail, seen in its total impact, a hardship? He went down hard, yes, and thousands upon thousands of Linux users breathed a sigh of relief, seeing that Mauro's attitude towards userland doesn't fly.

The hardest-hitting sentence in that mail is actually "You have shown yourself to not be competent in this issue". Absolutely devastating. Taking context into account it's the equivalent of telling a professional cook that their ingredients suck, what they did with them sucks, and most of all that the gall which which they claimed that the customer is wrong about their dinner sucking is completely, and utterly, unprofessional.

Of course that's hard on Mauro. There's no way to tell someone about such an epic cock-up without being hard. But not going that far, avoiding that hardship for some notion of civility, now that would be right-out cruel.

[-] Synthead@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Please defend these statements for me. I'm having a hard time understanding how this is language we should strive for in a code review, even with your explanation.

Additionally, if you can give me any pointers on how I can communicate this way, I'm all ears and would appreciate the help.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 3 points 11 months ago

It's not a code review. Mauro was gaslighting userspace devs, pretending that kernel bugs he introduced were their fault, and at the end of it all he agrees with Linus.

As to tone: How is "this is not up for discussion" and "obvious mistakes and thoughtlessness" any better? As a reader I'd be inclined to think that you think of me as having the emotional maturity of a toddler.

[-] Synthead@lemmy.world 0 points 11 months ago

I believe that excellent communication can be had without engineers swearing at each other, and I don't think there are is any good rationale that warrants such behavior. You believe that there is a time and purpose for the style of conversation that Linus portrayed, and it is warranted and effective behavior.

I'm going to agree to disagree from here. Thanks for the conversation.

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

and I don’t think there are is any good rationale that warrants such behavior

For one, the boss setting the tone as to include "shut up" means that you won't get written up for responding in a similar register. It allows for emotionality, instead of burdening the recipient of the dress-down not just with addressing their own behaviour, but also the emotional labour to respond in a way the tone police deems acceptable. Maybe paradoxically (for people lacking emotional intelligence), that makes emotional responses less likely as the recipient isn't as emotionally boxed in, doesn't see walls in every direction.

The line that you shouldn't cross is making things personal -- talking about what someone (presumably) is, instead of what they did. But that applies to any register, "Please come to HR to discuss your identity" isn't someone anyone should ever hear. Persons can be demeaned and belittled, but not behaviour: Behaviour doesn't have emotions, dignity, whatever.

this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
1480 points (91.8% liked)

linuxmemes

21169 readers
727 users here now

Hint: :q!


Sister communities:


Community rules (click to expand)

1. Follow the site-wide rules

2. Be civil
  • Understand the difference between a joke and an insult.
  • Do not harrass or attack members of the community for any reason.
  • Leave remarks of "peasantry" to the PCMR community. If you dislike an OS/service/application, attack the thing you dislike, not the individuals who use it. Some people may not have a choice.
  • Bigotry will not be tolerated.
  • These rules are somewhat loosened when the subject is a public figure. Still, do not attack their person or incite harrassment.
  • 3. Post Linux-related content
  • Including Unix and BSD.
  • Non-Linux content is acceptable as long as it makes a reference to Linux. For example, the poorly made mockery of sudo in Windows.
  • No porn. Even if you watch it on a Linux machine.
  • 4. No recent reposts
  • Everybody uses Arch btw, can't quit Vim, and wants to interject for a moment. You can stop now.

  • Please report posts and comments that break these rules!

    founded 1 year ago
    MODERATORS