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this post was submitted on 18 Nov 2023
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Linux users when somebody doesn't type out an essay to install a program
Uhm actually its very easy you just
And press enter and debug your missing dependencies for the next two weeks, I mean how hard is that?
More like:
Search in the app store, press install.
As opposed to the absolute nightmare of finding executables on random websites, downloading them, running an installer program, pressing next a bunch of times, then deleting the installer afterwards.
App management is something Linux does very well, and Windows very poorly.
On no other OS is it the norm to do it like you're expected to do it on Windows.
I can chat about bad points in Linux all day, I'm not blind to the faults of any of these OSes, but a Windows user saying installing software on Linux is hard really does have me giggling
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here's the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Need I say more?
E2: people still saying installing apps in Windows is easier despite photographic evidence to the contrary cannot be helped. You've gone too deep. Next you'll be saying climate change isn't real and the earth is flat lmao. The evidence is right there in front of you!
I'm afraid Linux is more complex for most regular people.
Yes, a lot of stuff is managed by a package manager (though you have to decide between 2-3 options of the same app, as one is flatpak and one is something else you've never come across before) and when that works, it's great. But it's far from comprehensive.
I'd rather press 'next' or 'ok' a few times than have to learn an entirely new and non-intuituve language and interface just to add an app or driver that is among the 20% of stuff that still won't just work out the box.
I really don't know where you're getting this impression from.
I search for software. It's there, I see an install button. I press it. You can click a drop down to pick between, say, an RPM package or a flatpak, but it's not something a normal user would do.
Installing windows programs, as I've already said, is a lot more than just pressing ok. It relies on knowing what site to pick, finding the download page, picking the right installer, finding the exe you downloaded, going through the install wizard, deleting the installer after.
It's not easier. IMO app management is the biggest weakness of Windows. There's a reason genuinely no other OS has that as the standard way to install programs.
I don't understand the part about learning a new language either? What? I open the app store, I search, I press install. There's no need for multiple languages? And the interface is a lot more intuitive than finding the right download on every single website, that all look different, and going through every installer, most of which look different.
Seriously, if you were talking about idk, HDR or gaming (outside of emulation where it's a solid Linux win) or something, I'd be agreeing with you and saying Windows is easier, despite Valve getting Linux pretty close.
But installing programs? Nah, Windows is the one that's a complicated clusterfuck. People are just used to it so they don't really think about it.
E: lmao you people are downvoting yet you can't refute it. Stop simping for a $2.8tn dollar company. I've already proven what I've said is true. Me criticising an OS isn't a personal attack lol, stop fanboying.
I'm getting this impression as someone who just installed Linux mint, because people like yourself who say there won't be problems and it will all just work. It didn't. There were problems, and there still are.
Even on Linux I still have to search online for info and for what app to install to meet my needs. Which also relies on knowing what site to trust, and what info you find varies hugely from helpful to incomprehensible for a beginner. Especially when there's a hundred unfamiliar options.
The whole finding downloading and installing something on windows is straightforward for most people. Search, go to site, select, install, follow instructions. Done. I'm not sure why you're making it sound like some frought and impenetrable nightmare. There's also the windows app store for (like the mint package manager) about 80% of stuff.
Honestly, I don't find the package manager much different, since I still need to search for something (to identify the right software / tool etc). And hope it's included in the package manager. Then I'm asked to approve some dependencys that I have no way, as a beginner, of evaluating of they're safe or not. So just click ok, and just have to trust the package manager / software (Another click) is safe. No different to me that some downloaded executable on windows.
And as for the different versions, yes, I mean why are there two or three versions of Firefox when I search in the Mint package manager? What makes flatpak ine different from the other one? How can I evaluate ? As a new user, even the descriptions don't help.
And when I say a new language, I'm talking about having to go into the terminal (?) And enter a bunch of unfamiliar commands that I have no idea if they're the right or safe thing to do, In order to be able to get something to work. In my case a switch pro controller and an Xbox one controller (when the pro didn't work). Both of which just work on windows. That's just one example, and I don't think it's an especially unique or niche one for someone coming from windows. Got them to work on Yuzu, but wouldn't work with a browser for some reason.
To be clear, I'm not dissing Linux (nor you!) I just don't believe it's easier that Windows, nor does it yet feel ready to help a new user do fairly 'normal' stuff they might want to. I also recently started using a Mac, and while that was laerning curve, it was still far more novice friendly than Mint. In my experience.
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't mean to do that.
Anybody who tells you you won't experience any issues on a piece of software as large, capable, and complex as a desktop OS is lying. Don't tell me I'm a person who'd say that, because I'm not. You will face an issue from time to time on Linux. You will face an issue from time to time on Windows. You will face an issue from time to time on MacOS.
Applies just as much to Windows (or Mac) as it does to Linux. We aren't born with intimate knowledge of every program ever made.
At least on Mac or Linux the app stores (that people actually use btw) have app categories and spotlights on apps to help you find good ones.
I'm sorry but no it isn't. You're just used to it. There's a difference. It's an awful and potentially dangerous way to get software. It's worse and it's needlessly cumbersome and complicated.
I keep repeating this, but there is a reason nobody else follows that model.
To me, it's a fatal flaw in Windows that Microsoft needs to sort out. I'm struggling to even sum up in words how much of a broken system it is. There's no defending it. Even Microsoft themselves acknowledge it's a broken system.
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here's the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Come on. Don't try to gaslight me into thinking that's intuitive, straightforward, or convenient. Because it isn't. You're lying to me and to yourself.
Which has barely any apps, a malware problem, and is full of open source apps uploaded by people who aren't the original developer, charging money for them. Even the most die hard windows fans think the Windows store is bad.
You don't need to use the terminal. I could make this same complaint about the command prompt, powershell, or windows terminal (why are there 3, btw, Microsoft?! Why make this needlessly confusing??) Or about having to navigate the nightmare that is the Windows Registry when something doesn't work.
Huh. I have the opposite experience. I plug a controlled into my Linux PC, it just works. Not the same on windows. Ironically, Microsoft's own controllers work better on Linux than they do on Windows. And don't get me started on using PlayStation controllers on Windows.
Just to set the record straight: I'm not trying to gaslight you. I'm sharing my newbie Linux journey, which hasn't been as smooth as I hoped.
Linux's centralised app management is neat, but for a Windows convert, figuring out which Linux apps to use isn't straightforward. Deciding between numerous unfamiliar software options isn't much different from the Windows method you described – it's just swapping out the final step of installer downloads for package manager searches. What I'm saying is that, yes, you're technicallycorrect. But in terms of pratical experience, the difference isn't that significant.
The package manager is a mixed bag. Yes, it's probably safer, but as a beginner, I'm still placing my trust in it blindly, just like I would with any Windows software site. And navigating it? It's like a sweet shop, but one where I can't tell one sweet from another. Maybe I don't need to? Maybe there's actually some huge benefit or negative of one version over the other? I don't know, I'll have to research it... again.
The descriptions don't tell me either. For instance, my Linux Mint shows two versions of VLC (one with the familiar icon), and a bunch of other VLC stuff, which I'm sure is super helpful for people who need whatever they are, but it leaves me baffled.
Then there's the terminal – Linux's "user-friendly" feature (/s). To fix something as simple as a controller, I'm thrust into a world of cryptic commands, that, unless I want to spend weeks learning, I have to take on faith aren't the linux equivalent of deleting system32... It's a steep climb compared to the familiar process of downloading and installing drivers on Windows.
So, while I recognise each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, for someone fresh to Linux, it can feel like you need a Computer Science degree for what's a walk in the park on Windows.And yes, that's due to familiarity. Maybe even Stokholme Syndrome...
That's a problem with any system. You can say that about moving to iOS, Android, Windows, Mac, Linux.
Yes it is, it's very different. I've shown you the difference.
No, the practical difference is huge, and I've shown you that! It's far less complicated, far less cumbersome, far more intuitive, and also considerably safer on Linux than it is on windows.
I like Windows, I do. I use it every day. I could list a dozen things I think Windows does very well. But the biggest issue I have with Windows is that managing software on it makes me want to pull my teeth out. It is hands down the worst operating system that is still in use in that regard.
That's not me being dramatic or exaggerating. It is the worst actively used operating system that exists for managing software, and it's not even close.
No amount of writing I can do can sum up how bad it is in that regard.
Again, I need to reiterate this. Microsoft has stated themselves that they think it's a bad system. No other OS has tried to do it this way, for good reason.
Please stop pretending they're on par, because they're not.
Verifiably safer.
Stop talking about the terminal. You don't need to use the terminal. If you talk about the terminal then it's only fair that I bring up command prompt, Windows terminal, and powershell. And guess what? They're even more complex than the Linux terminal, the fact that there are three and you're expected to know what to use each for is another layer of confusion.
I also never said the terminal was user friendly, I've repeatedly said you shouldn't use it. Please stop putting words in my mouth.
You don't need to use the terminal. You don't need to use command prompt. You don't need to use powershell. You don't need to use Microsoft terminal.
YOU DON'T NEED TO USE THE TERMINAL.
Do I need to say it any more? It's a completely disingenuous argument.
I'm not sure why Mint lists flatpaks as a different app to their own packaged version. Other software centres I've seen don't do that, you've seen what mine looks like. But the Mint team is literally just a handful of people who make a system that's still less complicated than one from a $2.75 trillion dollar company.