Memes of Production

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Seize the Memes of Production

An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the “ML” influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.

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[–] menas@lemmy.wtf 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Marx position was not about who shall be emancipated or not but who have an interest to struggle for the revolution. In his mind, a part of the proletariat was too precarious, and could be easily corrupt by the bourgeoisie. Such as thieves and cops.

However with the development of the communists party and their propaganda around ouvrierism, the pride of workers turn to be the pride to work. The lumpen became a slur against people that do not work enough; a conception close to the far-right view of unemployed "parasites". That's why nobody use that term anymore, even if it's still accurate for cops and managers

[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

I ask again, does anyone has a quote on that?

I read the capital, the manifesto, the Feuerbach thesen and the 18the brumaire of Luis Bonaparte in German original and can't recall what you propose. But there are lots of other texts, so if what you say is source based, I am pleased to learn.

"Lumpen" is German for rags, meaning the poorest of the poor, I can't imagine him using that for managers and the like, in another way than sarcastic. It would absolutely not fit into his theory of society.

[–] commiunism@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

What I think the reference is to is

The “dangerous class”, [lumpenproletariat] the social scum, that passively rotting mass thrown off by the lowest layers of the old society, may, here and there, be swept into the movement by a proletarian revolution; its conditions of life, however, prepare it far more for the part of a bribed tool of reactionary intrigue.

from the chapter 1 of the 'festo, and even though it's harsh it does state that it's not an inevitability, but rather a more likely outcome.

[–] Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 week ago

yeah, that's a cryout about the conditions they have to live under and that they are in danger of being bribed into doing actions that are actually against their material interest

Its the opposite of saying "the material conditions make them an enemy of the working class"

[–] naeap@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 week ago

Yeah, never heard that as well - quote would be nice

[–] menas@lemmy.wtf 2 points 1 week ago

Their is what Marx said and whats marxists made of that. Again, this is poorly defined in Marx text and spread in a lot of them. You'd rather rely on people that study the lumpen as a context, maybe Jean-Claude Bourdin. However for orthodoxes : "From whore to pope, there is a mass of such rabble. But the honest and ‘working’ lumpenproletariat belongs here as well;" - Grundrisse