(Preferably with sources)
I've overcorrected from "China bad" to "China is infallible." I know that's incorrect, but it's hard to decipher US propaganda from actual issues.
In discussions in the past, providing a positive counterpoint is plenty, but since more folks are already realizing the narrative about China is incorrect I would like to have more nuanced discussions where I can present both praise and criticism. I think it's also important that we don't end up in a USSR situation where Communism is synonymous with the actions of a single country.
- I know they're trading with the genocidal zionist entity. Even if their policy is to be apolitical, that's very bad.
- I'm unsure of what the internal restrictions look like in general
- I saw that the "social credit score" was a small experiment in one province that got way overblown
- Great firewall...? I know it's a thing, iiuc you can use a VPN to get around it, but only ones provided by the state (which could easily backdoor them)?
- Limitations on speech? Do people get disappeared?
- Are they monitoring everyone? "You can't monitor 1.5 billion people" idk computers are pretty fast. Also you can def use big data to find the people you do need to monitor more closely
- Dengism? Reintroducing capitalism looks like a retreat at face value and has the obvious problems of capitalism, but I saw someone on here talking about it being a genius way of deindustrializing capitalist nations while building China's own capacity
Are there others? I'm happy if you also include justification for their policies, but I do want to know where you genuinely think they're making mistakes.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Unless somebody has more information, it doesn't seem that the chauvinism has a foothold in the upper reaches of the cpc, fortunately.
Hopefully but it wouldn't exactly be unheard of in a communist party. Yugoslavia's party was notoriously infested by nationalists pretty much since its inception and it never truly got rid of that nationalist current, ultimately resulting in the clusterfuck in the 90s.
The Soviet Union is another prominent example, I obviously wouldn't go as far as to uphold the common liberal narrative that the USSR was basically just a Russian imperialist project but to deny there wasn't any Russian chauvinism in the party leadership would also be naive.
I'm cautiously optimistic that China won't fall for this trap but I'm also not completely disregarding the possibility, after all they all but abandoned internationalism and their overall rhetoric is fairly nationalistic.
Nah, it's definitely not a prominent example. You'd be hard pressed to find one country in its time period more progressive towards its different ethnicities and cultures, sure they had a measure of Russian chauvinism leftover from Tsarism, but it's far far far from a prominent example.
It's prominent because it happened in one of the largest socialist projects on the planet at the time, I recognize it probably wasn't as extreme as it was in Yugoslavia but it was there and considering how fast the Russian Federation regressed into Russian chauvinism it shows it wasn't really close to being exterminated.
I think the root cause of all of this is that at the first half of the 20th century when all of these socialist projects were taking root there were too few actual honest ideologically committed internationalist communists to actual govern whole nations. Eventually you're going to fill the party up with people of dubious ideological commitment and agendas.
I fully disagree. The fact that Russian chauvinism popped afterwards is evidence that it was repressed earlier, not that it was a prominent tendency.
The country itself had no geographical or ethnic markers on its name (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), the presidents were mostly non-Russian (Stalin being Georgian, Brezhnev and Khruschyov being Ukrainian), minority languages got official status and people had a right to an education in them, most newspapers and books sold in non-Russian republics were written in the local language, Korenizatsiya campaigns fostered the recognition and celebration of formerly repressed ethnicities during the Russian Empire... For a 20th century country they did incredibly well, and calling it a prominent example of chauvinism just because "it was the big socialist country" at a time where France was happily murdering 2 million Algerians in its colonies and destroying its own minority languages such as Breton and Occitan, seems extremely excessive to me.
Is there criticism to be made with hindsight? For sure. Are there big, big blemishes such as deportations of Koreans and ethnic Tatars? Absolutely. Was the country still immensely progressive in national aspects for its time and its origins? Abso-fuckin-lutely. Stalin literally rose to prominence after performing well as the Comissar of Nationalities IN THE 1910 AND 1920s!!!!
That makes no sense honestly. If it really was as severely repressed as you claim it wouldn't be able to pop up again so suddenly.
After all Putin himself was a KGB agent for a long time before the Soviet Union fell, he wasn't some rando from some backwoods that randomly popped in and took power, he was part of the former establishment. This is a pattern that can be seen throughout Europe in all former socialist states when they fell, the previous political establishment largely turned coat and turned into nationalists or at best meek social democrats.
Putin was a fucking secretary at the KGB, not the supreme leader of the organization. You're literally judging the country for the sins committed after its dismantling. Like, what's your criticism, that Putin happens to be born in the USSR as opposed to spawning out of thin air in 1991? Should the president have instead come from one of the republics that stopped forming part of the same country after the dissolution?
Also, great job of disregarding the entire rest of my comment and overfocusing on the usage of the word "repressed". Seriously, what are you comparing the USSR to when you talk about being a "prominent example of chauvinism" during the 20th century?
I'm not, stop putting words in my mouth. Also there's literally no reason to be so aggressive, I'm not condemning the totality of the Soviet Union or any other socialist project in Europe, I'm saying all or most of those parties had issues with ideological discipline and commitment of its members mostly in the form of lingering nationalist and chauvinist sentiment. If they didn't they might still be socialist today, after all the USSR fell with a whimper not via a massive bloody US backed counter revolution or invasion and Yugoslavia fell to a civil war stirred up by nationalists on all sides. There was clearly too little ideological commitment in their respective establishments to withstand the economic and military pressure from the West. This is something most people here would agree with as most would say the USSR started slowly falling to revisionism right after Stalin but for some reason it's controversial if I give that revisionism a name and a cause.
I'm also not prescribing what they should have done better or differently because I don't know the answer to that, I'm just stating my observations.
You ARE judging the USSR for what the successor nation 35 years ago is doing when you say "why is there Russian chauvinism in Russia then?".
I'm the first to mention the actual issues with nationalities in the USSR, if you read through my comments you'll see mentions to things like the deportations. My issue is not criticism of the USSR, it's the fact that you call it an "overwhelming example of chauvinism" when it's literally the best country in its time in that metric, except possibly China which was actually modelled initially in the USSR, and Cuba which developed and survived thanks to the USSR.
I would accept actual criticism, not "if not Russian chauvinist, then why is the current president Russian?" libspeak.
I never used those words, why do you keep making shit up?
There are definitely liberals in the upper reaches by my analyais, so it definitely isn't out of the question.