Comradeship // Freechat

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Talking to neoliberals is mental torture. (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 days ago by znsh@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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The amount of propaganda they believe and are certain of plus their unending love for capitalism is just mind blowing. I'm done trying to convince people of the opposite, they will either arrive at the truth themselves or never will.

You can have the most level headed discussion about something, cite sources, evidence etc. and still get called "chinese/russian propaganda" or "show me where socialism works" or "I will not live under a dictatorship like they do in china" or "If we let china dictate our lives we are all working in sweatshops or 996".

Sorry for venting, I'm just more and more realising that people straight up believe something without ever challenging that narrative and it'a frustrating.

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[–] morti@lemmygrad.ml 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

edit: I feel for you, comrade. It is so incredibly frustrating.

I got in an argument with a friend of mine about human behavior. He is convinced that humans are greedy and will take a mile if you give them an inch. Even when I sent him a 40 page review paper citing hundreds of articles, which all discuss different ways humans exhibit altruistic and pro-social behavior, he still tries to argue you can more easily count on people to be greedy than you can count on them to be altruistic or cooperative.

He also tried to argue that people can't self-regulate. As if giving people an abundance of resources would cause them all to overindulge because, apparently, the only thing stopping people from eating themselves to death is the limited amount of money they have.

I'm not saying greed and self-regulate on issues aren't behaviors that humans exhibit. I'm saying you can pretty consistently count on people not being selfish, and self-regulation issues are better addressed by mental health experts than to design an economic system such that people are faced with a choice between moderation or death.

[–] Collatz_problem@hexbear.net 19 points 2 days ago (2 children)

you can more easily count on people to be greedy than you can count on them to be altruistic or cooperative

That's why you disincentivize greed, not incentivize it.

[–] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 days ago

That's what most non-MLs don't get about communism. The "human nature" argument for liberalism is basically irrelevant because the entire system is set up for the benefit of the working people. Individuals can still be greedy and selfish but they'll only get so far and won't be able to use others for their own personal gain.

[–] TabularTuxedo@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I have a belief that neoliberalism is fundamentally born out of lack of education or class interest.

Like, this sort of greed argument doesn't work when you consider indigenous tribes or when you actually study about why did humans and other mammals evolve the hoarding habit.

[–] Maeve@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago

HRC introduced the term, iirc. She's well-educated, and very skilled at convincing the masses that what hurts them will help them.

[–] tradclasstruggle@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 days ago

So, how does that work for Jeff Bezos? How is that prick still alive and not eaten himself and all his family to death?