this post was submitted on 03 Jun 2026
272 points (84.7% liked)
Technology
85694 readers
3476 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related news or articles.
- Be excellent to each other!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, this includes using AI responses and summaries. To ask if your bot can be added please contact a mod.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
- Accounts 7 days and younger will have their posts automatically removed.
Approved Bots
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Mate, I did not know parents were not responsible for their own children. That is on me. I'm glad to hear all the work I've done on my network and computers to make them safe for my children was a moot point.
Adults like gambling. It's not Valve's fault that children are using it cause their parents are ignorant of their own child.
As far as the DRM stuff goes, that's all based on the publisher. And it's not that difficult to bypass. Valve has shown time and time again, that they are a business for their customers. Their customers like a solid platform that works and is easy to use and has a community.
Let's take a look a Linux real quick. If it wasn't for Valve, Linux gaming wouldn't be what it is today. They did that and gave it to the community. I'm sorry other platforms can't be bothered to put in that kind of effort. If you wanna play with the big dogs, you gotta get off the porch. And Ubisoft wants to take the easy way out through a lawsuit. They need to do better with their storefront. Offer good exclusives. Try to actually appeal to your customers.
I still remember when everybody bitched about Steam when half-life 2 came out. It was kinda bad, and people were mad about it. But Valve was just ahead of the curve. It allowed them to publish updates, patches, anti-cheating. And soon enough, the community grew to love it. It just worked. If something broke in your game, it was probably fixed in a week if it was a Valve game. It gave so much to PC players.
If adults want to gamble, fine. Let's enforce gambling laws and get this over with. It would also solve the children gambling problem because that would be illegal. But this is why Valve's gambling service is indefensible. Valve is actively trying to prevent the gambling classification because if it gets treated like actual gambling it most likely stops being profitable. I don't necessarily have an issue with gambling, I have an issue with it not being treated as gambling. And all the other things Valve has done that have been positive for gaming do not justify giving Valve a free pass on gambling.
To bring it back to Gaben, he isn't avoiding taxes but he is avoiding the (gambling) law because it makes him more money, so is it that different from avoiding taxes?
That is a fair point. However, I must ask, what is the different between what Valve is doing with loot boxes v. every single trading card game out there. MTG, Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh, or Disney's Lorcana? You are purchasing an item that has items in it that are random. The only reason they have value is because people have the option to just buy skin they want on Valve's marketplace. Just like people have the option to buy a specific Pokémon card from a third party.
The other thing that Valve has done is, there's no inherent value to the item. You can sell items for Steam Wallet funds, to then use in the marketplace. So, to me it seems, it's really easy to set up a Steam account to not be allowed to purchase items. Which would include adding money to a Steam wallet for the marketplace. So, no this is not a "think of the children" issue. It's yet again, another people are bad parents and can't be bothered to use parental controls on their children's electronics. Or take steps to prevent them from spending real money. Or take steps to prevent them from playing too much.
I don't see how that matters at this point, you've already called it gambling. Are you going to walk that back to defend Valve? After all the only reason to bring up this point is to claim it's not actually gambling. And to address your point, yes I also consider MTG, Pokemon and most trading card games the physical equivalent of a lootbox and a form of gambling. I also know they're not gambling in a legal sense but we'll get to where Valve differs in the next part.
Actually that's no longer true and that's why there was a lawsuit filed against Valve at the start of this year. The items now have a value because you sell the things to get Steam credit and then use Steam credit to buy a Steam Deck and then sell the Deck for real money. It's no longer a closed system, you can get the money out. And once again, this wouldn't be an issue if Valve either a) stopped their gambling or b) adhere to gambling laws.
Holy fuck, didn't realize so many kids were buying and selling steam decks. Damn, got me. I admit defeat. Later, friend.
Oh yeah, strawman the fuck out of my argument, that'll definitely show me.
Ugh, fine. The lawsuit is gonna bust because there's too many steps to exchange the wallet into cash. Most notably, selling the Deck. So, there is no real gambling danger. Those extra steps are what keeps it removed from being considered gambling legally. There, you happy?
Actually I'm sad. I'm sad I'm having a conversation with someone who thinks they know more about the law than the New York Attorney general. I've lost, there's no argument I could make that could get through the Dunning-Kruger.
lol
That is an appeal to authority. Every one is susceptible to a mistake. And I believe this one is. I think the court will rule in favor of Valve if they don't dismiss it. The way the economy works inside of Steam is what insulates it from being gambling. NY is arguing that being able to redeem your wallet for a Deck and then selling that deck, introduces the cash component of gambling. Not only that, but third party sellers are brought up and that adds several other layers that will be harder to make the case for. In addition, they claim Valve knowingly doesn't care about the third party sellers. That, in and of itself, is not Valve's problem specifically. If people want to pay money for a cosmetic item, it's no different than Pokémon. Again, an insulating layer. That is a far cry from an open and shut case, as you seem to think it to be.
Multiple lawyers would point out that introducing steps to acquire cash insulates it. Especially since one of those steps is selling an item. This economy that they are trying to build out is shaky at best. But that's just like, my opinion man. Do you have any of your own thoughts regarding the case? Have you read the case documents and come to a conclusion for yourself? Or are you just reading an article and calling it a day?
Why would I have my own thoughts about this matter? I'm not a lawyer. I'm not even going to pretend to have the competence to understand the legal nuances necessary to analyze this lawsuit. I'm a dumbass so I'm going rely on the expertise of actual experts and the AG isn't going to file a suit on some easily dismissable grounds. So unless you can find someone credible backing up what you're saying you're just talking out of your ass.
Jeez dude, didn't realize you weren't interested in this case. If so, then why are you so passionate about something of which you know so little?
You are willing to put utter faith in articles and people rather than reading the case, looking into it, and coming to a conclusion? And then vehemently defending those opinions of of others. Why?
The fuck kind of an antivaxxer argument is this? If an health expert tells you get the vaccine do you also go "better come to my own conclusion"? Just because I don't Dunning Kruger myself into believing I know enough about the subject matter to form an opinion doesn't mean I'm not interested in the case.
Do you listen to Dr. Oz? He's a surgeon. Practiced. Does that make his medical opinion gospel?
No. Despite his knowledge and understanding of medicine, his claims are not credible because there are a lot of documented instances where he's used his own medical authority for personal gain.
So if you want to go down that route, start proving that the NYAG is not credible.
Credibility does not imply infallibility.
Well you're neither credible nor infallible so why should I even care about your opinion.
Y-yes. So, you should read the case for yourself, so you can make an estimation. The case is a rough outline of how the State is going to attack. You can then, try your best to think of any legal explanation against it. Then judge for yourself if Valve is in the wrong. But I already said that and I feel the looping starting. whoaaaaaa
Yeah, the loop is starting again because you clearly don't see what is wrong with the "don't listen to the expert, do your own research" argument. Fucking genius conversation. You, without a law degree, arguing with me, without a law degree, about a very specific legal gray area like we know what the fuck we're talking about. No, it's stupid which is why I'm refusing to partake in it. I'm not going to act like I know how to make a legal argument which is why I'm pointing at someone who is supposed to know what the fuck they're talking about. I don't get why you want to drag this conversation into something neither of are even remotely qualified to talk about.
Why are you acting like legal arguments are so convoluted? They're usually straightforward and boring. Because they have to be. You're just choosing to not put in effort and instead look at articles. If you want James' actual opinion, read the case.
Dunning Kruger in full effect. "How hard could this thing be that takes years to work through by 6 figure professionals? I can totally make those arguments myself."
And just for your information, I have read the complaint in full. It's another example of you just assuming you know things.
Okay, since you've read it, how do you think the Section I-22,23 relate to Steam specifically? I'm asking you to read those words and try to understand them and make a judgement.
I personally feel like Section II is a typical case layout. But I find it strange about the equivalence made in that Section. Your thoughts?
Do you think that Section III is demonstrating a system in which you are presented the opportunity to gamble? I'll be honest, James' makes a good case. But that doesn't matter because 1999 NY v. Nintendo of America had the same groundwork and was dismissed. The issue came into the case that, Pokémon cards did not carry any inherent value, unless you went to a third party and that third party offered money. Thus, insulating Nintendo from a closed loop system. Let's keep going!
Section IV-A-78 seems to me as a stretch to close the loop. It's the same argument I've aforementioned. But my question for you is, when does the system close in this case? And do you think (87) is a fair comparison? At what point does the proof of an economy constitute gambling? Do we need to go after all blind boxes? Your thoughts, since you've read the case?
Section IV-A-89, at what point is it Valve's responsibility to go after third party sites who are doing what people do in the real world? Attaching monetary value to cosmetic items in video games, I mean. Do you think the SSA obligates them to? What are the chilling effects of that? I feel like that could give corporations a lot of power, and I don't like that.
The listing of selected enforcement opens James' case to a lot of attacks. I think it's a failure on her part, as it will weaken the case in front of a judge if Valve's lawyers just immediately rip it to shreds.
Section V just feels like TCG all over again.
Now the danger to children, again, if we go with this being a danger to children, then ALL TCGs are a danger to children. They open packs looking for rares, right? Same concept. But how are children getting that much access to money? That's starting to sound like a parent problem. Who is letting their kids spend hundreds of dollars? Like, that's just bad parenting.
The Causes won't hold water. They're not air tight and are very vulnerable to attacks. But hey, I'm just an idiot, right? Just another Dunning-Kruger dingbat? Which is just hilarious that you keep bringing it up, misunderstanding the actual study and flaws of it. What would you say that is?
lmao im sure there is no money involved at all helping the ag care
And how exactly does this supposed money change the legal arguments made in lawsuit?
because why should anyone care about the legal arguments or any ags actual knowledge about said laws if they only serve garbage companies like epic or ubi (and while pretending companies like draft kings dont exist) and that epic hasn’t attempted the same control that steam has, they just suck at the actual service part
and more to my point, this is really what the ny ag thinks is the best use of their time right now, lmao, not any kind of major fraud going on right now that maybe they want to look into if gambling is so very bad
epic games and its ‘coalition of state attorney generals’ is not self serving at all, epic just just really really cares about consumers!
if you can’t compete, litigate
You're going to have to explain how Epic or Ubisoft benefit from shutting down Valve's gambling machine. If it's "Valve makes less money" then that's an irrelevant point because even if you shut down the gambling money Valve is still raking in cash. Valve simply goes from making an insane amount of money to making a slightly less insane amount of money. Valve losing gambling money is going to have zero impact on the PC storefront space. Valve losing the lawsuit in the article, now that could have an impact on the PC storefront space.
And you know, it's pretty sad that you instantly went to "she's corrupt" instead of even giving the smallest benefit of doubt to the possibility that she might be doing it because it's morally wrong. It's a sad because in your mind morality doesn't exist and corruption is everywhere.
if you can’t see how hurting valve is a direct benefit to epic or ubi we're wasting my time
irrelevant point? lol that’s not at all how business works
i don’t care about the gambling money beyond the hypocrisy of it while sports betting, digital currency markets and fucking polymarket exist, and i’m claiming shadiness because epic has its hand up multiple ags asses in multiple markets, just take a look at apple or google stores as well as valve, epic is funding this politic to its own benefit because it failed so fucking hard competing the real way and the ags see it as an easy target since coalitions cost money
if she actually gave a damn about gambling we’d be seeing her go after sports betting first by sheer volume, draft kings is fucking disgusting
steam is actually doing some positive things for consumers and it’s asinine to start with valve
if you think morality is involved in the american legal system you live a charmed life
Did you even read what I said? Valve losing it's gambling money is going to have no impact on their market share in the PC storefront market space because Valve is already making boatloads of money even without the gambling money. Valve doesn't need to do anything to make up for the loss because they don't need to be greedy. They can eat "the loss" and continue business as usual which means there is no direct benefit for any competing storefront. If anything it might end up being a net negative because (while it probably won't directly impact Epic or Ubisoft) some big studios still use lootboxes and this ruling would further push getting them banned. There's an indirect benefit to Epic of Ubisoft in the form of Valve making less money but when you make insane amounts of money making slightly less insane amounts of money isn't anything Epic of Ubisoft will feel. So yeah, I'd like to see you explain how the gambling lawsuit would directly benefit Epic of Ubisoft.
So she shouldn't go after Valve where there's a legitimate case to be made? Because she should be going after some other nondescript entity that she may not even have a case against? Yeah, makes total sense.
So according to you SKG movement isn't driven by the moral point that we should own the things we buy? So who is funding that initiative? Who gains to benefit from it? Come on, give me the juice. Let me suckle on that conspiracy teat. It's all conspiracies, no good guys ever exists. Ross Scott is a paid actor.
lol you restating your position doesn't suddenly make it true
just because you have no idea how fortune 500s work isn't my concern
if she cares about valve while draft kings, polymarket, tcgs, roblox, and digital coins exist she’s a joke and this is from someone who thinks gambling is a cancer
roblox is literal gacha for preteens in a cesspool with pedos
and she doesn't have a case for valve either lol, this shits going nowhere, this whole ‘think of the kids bullshit’ for a game rated M and a site requiring you be > 13 is just more fud for a real id
it’s not conspiracy to literally google epic using states to sue competition: google apple valve have been targeted for anticompetitive practices
epic games anti trust + state coalitions all while epic has historically come under fire for also being anticompetitive pure lol
and for the gambling charges google all the states + federal governments (eu as well) pushing for online ids for various ‘think if the children’ reasons
That's a whole lot of distraction from the point, mate. If you found out that a casino was allowing children to gamble on their property, would you not want to shut down that casino?
Yes, the parents shouldn't be allowing the kids to gamble. But parents don't always "allow" their kids to do the things they do in the first place. You know damn well you did things as a child that you weren't "allowed" to do, things that you were told specifically not to do. You know that you successfully hid things from your parents, but expect other parents to find everything? Most of this happens completely under the parents' radar.
Addicts steal, and that's no different for children, either. Often they'll take their parent's credit card in hopes that the charge goes unnoticed, or they'll obfuscate the charge by spending money on another currency that gets converted after the fact to one used for lootboxes.
There are even worse things that an addict will do for money. Some may resort to scams; sometimes they'll set up catfish social media profiles to bait gooners into paying them gobs of money for fake pictures. Some may resort to worse behavior; I've seen instructional TikTok videos for children to lure adults onto Roblox for sexual acts, to be paid in Robux, which can then easily be converted into just about any other game's currency. Literal child prostitution.
But sure. Let's blame the parents, instead of the billionaire's child casino.
I could not give a shit. I am a parent of two and no, you cannot watch them every second. But you can watch your bank accounts. You can watch your child play. You can watch your child's behavior change if they start getting really into gambling.
I had an older child I kinda took care of, who thinks of me as a father figure; he has none. He called me one night cause he was 16 and drunk and high and didn't want to drive home. He said, "I called you, because you always said to call you if this happened. I'm so sorry“. I picked him up and helped his hangover the next morning and we had a long talk. That kid is on the ocean sending underwater robots to explore as an electrical engineer. Cause he liked that I did that. EE, not the water stuff lol.
Parents are responsible for their children and children have to learn responsibility for their actions. And that is a lesson that you have to teach your children. The best way is through learning. I've watched my mom raise an addict, so don't you fucking dare try to appeal to me. She was the perfect mom. He just got in with the wrong crowd and went downhill. He's sober now, but it was rough growing up. But she put in a hell of a lot of work into him.
I tell you that, because I'm not here to say we should ban public schools, because that's where my brother tried heroin. I'm not here to say we should fund private schools with taxpayer money, because there are drugs in our schools. It's a fucking bad stroke of luck. Fire and damnnation, this got me hot. Don't fall off your pedestal as you get on your high horse.