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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2023
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UK Politics
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General Discussion for politics in the UK.
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The Coalition agreed on a referendum on AV as a compromise. The Lib Dems' (and most electoral reform campaigners') preferred voting system is Single Transferrable Vote, which is effectively AV but with multi-member constituencies instead of single-member. STV is used in the Republic of Ireland and delivers proportional results whilst maintaining the existence of geographic constituency links - generally considered two desirable features of a voting system (along with preferentialism, a feature AV and STV both have).
If we could have made the switch to AV then it would have been only a short step from there to STV a few years later. But the Tories campaigned heavily against it, and Labour were highly divided on electoral reform so were officially neutral but in practice a majority of Labour MPs backed the 'no' campaign. So the referendum failed.
@theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne I support PR, but I am concerned about keeping a constituncy link so everybody has a named MP. A modified form of STV would seem to be the way, with ATV for by-elections.
@PamCrossland @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne
It can't be proportional and the existing level of constitutional representation without going to over 2000 MPs. PR in a Parliamentary system wrecks one person one vote for one candidate in a constituency.
Be careful what you wish for.
@simon_lucy @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne This is why I said a modified form. For example, from the top of my head, either first place candidate gets first choice of sub-constituency, 2nd, gets second choice, etc. Or the winner gets a sub-constituency in the area where most voted for them, 2nd, is their first of the first seond best, etc.
It could be done if people would only put their heads together.
@PamCrossland @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne
That's not electing to a parliament, what are these sub constituencies, how do votes in a particular area count, if they're separate then why combine them?
@simon_lucy @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne Pecause an area overall would have a great deal of proportionatally. So a city like Manchester would have say six MPs, and a sub constituency would still allow for a named MP but likely to have one or more other getting elected for their party/independents.
We currently do NOT live in a democratic country.
@PamCrossland @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne
That doesn't make any sense at all. Is a sub-constituency going to send an MP? If so then it's a constituency, but if the votes are an aggregation just to benefit a political party then it destroys the idea of an MP and constituencies.
It you think democracy is about fairness in results then you don't understand what democracy is. An election is not an opinion poll, it's a decision.
@simon_lucy @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne I don't know if you are doing this deliberately. Of course it would be a multi-member constituency, but a sub-constituency would allow people to still have a constituency MP.
Oh and yes, I know what democracy is, and it seems you are against it. Now please go away.
@PamCrossland @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne
I guess blocking is as good a comment on the argument as any other.
@PamCrossland @theinspectorst @i_am_not_a_robot @Syldon @jonne
And then taking another bite and blocking again.
Marvellous.