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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/40388903

I have a science-fantasy world with intelligent non-anthro animals living in harmony, which I've posted some lore about this in the past. Think "communist non-anthro Zootopia with sci-fi technology." This is something that I've been thinking about for a while and combines my interests in worldbuilding and software. I want to create a fictional social media platform for the animals in my world, and stage fictional threads in the typical Reddit/Lemmy format discussing news and politics taking place within the world. Then post screenshots here with context explaining what is happening. I just thought this might be a more fun way of sharing lore about my world than just the articles themselves, almost like an ARG. I'll also be able to introduce some of my main narrative characters through their social media presence.

On the technical side of things, I don't know if I want to compile and spin up a local Lemmy instance at home and actually stage accounts and posts on it. But actually logging in and out of different accounts sounds like way more work than necessary so I could also just take the Lemmy UI and add my own mock thread data to it. Or, I could write my own code for a completely fictional GUI, since I don't want to just use the default Lemmy UI and break the illusion. The second and third options might be more important if I want to make this an actual ARG and host a website for it, since in that case I don't actually want people to sign up and post.

I would love some feedback in general on this idea, and maybe gauge interest on if this is something people would like to see.

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[–] Jasperthewolf@pawb.social 1 points 4 days ago (7 children)

I started this project well before I became a socialist Based, I can really see the inspiration from it here!

The world is similar to the human world in a lot of its constructs because they were heavily influenced by the discovery of the humans' stored knowledge and data after they went extinct. Are there animal inventors then too? Do they have their own inventions? What happens to things like the meat industry?

Trophist species are significantly less cooperative, even between species with the same ideology. Different predator species are inherently competitive and not cooperative, and it still holds true in their world. Makes sense, I was wondering, wouldn’t the predator groups still be on top in this world due to their more ruthless and competitive nature? Do different groups have their own agendas and motivations for wanting to return to the food chain system of old?

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)

Do they have their own inventions?

Absolutely! Dietary enzyme supplements are an entirely animal creation. Humans don't need them to go vegan but carnivores like cats, dogs, mustelids, etc do.

Quantum interfaces marked their surpassing of humanity in technological development. These are devices that can arbitrarily interact with and manipulate quantum systems and in theory can do literally anything.

They also developed ways of managing their ecosystem now that predation is off the table. Unitist ecosystems are prosperous and balanced because they take great care in managing it beyond just having predators to control prey population.

What happens to things like the meat industry?

They were destroyed in the various revolutions that led to species becoming Unitist. The path to unitism for former predators like cats, ironically, is filled with violence and bloodshed as the individuals still determined to continue hunting viciously fought back against the individuals trying to move their species/taxa beyond it.

Makes sense, I was wondering, wouldn’t the predator groups still be on top in this world due to their more ruthless and competitive nature? Do different groups have their own agendas and motivations for wanting to return to the food chain system of old?

They are on top of their various Trophist societies, but the Unitists are significantly ahead of them in terms of technology, so they can't really go on the offensive against them because they'll get their asses handed to them. Unitists are pacifist and don't go around looking to start wars, but they're fully prepared to show anyone who tries to hunt them their full technological prowess.

Trophism is largely comprised of former apex predatoes like wolves, bears, etc. Not to say there are no Unitist apex predators, though.

Part of the reason Unitism arose primarily in physically smaller was their need to develop technology to defend themselves from the larger predators. Working together allowed them to develop technology faster, which eventually led to the idea of Unitism.

[–] Jasperthewolf@pawb.social 1 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Ohh got it, so how was the transition phase between the current and former societies? I assume there were multiple huge wars to create it. I also wonder if the animal life spans are longer now thanks to the technology.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

how was the transition phase between the current and former societies? I assume there were multiple huge wars to create it.

Unitist revolutions tend to be extremely violent and lead to the deaths of many, mostly because the individuals adamant on continuing to hunt prey tend not to have many moral qualms about killing members of their own taxa who are trying to get them to not hunt either. Unitist revolutionaries often start off with an idealist concept of "predator conversion" where you convince the remaining predator population in your carnivore species to plant based alternatives, but, in a real revolutionary war it generally very quickly turns into a "predator purge" where they try to kill you so you end up "having to" kill them in response. Helped (or not helped) by the fact that a carnivore species or taxon in a position to initiate a Unitist revolution tend to already have a well defined internal split where the scientists, engineers, and other intellectuals are generally on the Unitist side and the "brawn over brains" individuals tend to be on the Trophist side, so in an all out war the Unitists tend to have the technological advantage, even when they are physically much less experienced with paw to paw combat. Also, due to the fact that predators will fight tooth and claw against the banning of predation in their species/taxa, the revolutionary wars tend to only end when almost all the hardline predators are dead, hence a "predator purge." This is either convenient for the Unitists who won't have to deal with a lot of predators when setting up their multispecies society, or an utter betrayal of their pacifist ideals to form a Unitist society by killing all who disagree with it, or both, depending on how you think.

I also wonder if the animal life spans are longer now thanks to the technology.

Absolutely, and while I tend to keep the ages of the animals ambiguous, it is heavily implied that pretty much all species have at least human-scale lifespans and reproduction rates (mainly to make storytelling easier because really short lifespans aren't conducive to complex character development). Even for animals like small rodents where it's an orders of magnitude increase in lifespan and decrease in birth rate. It's also implied that this change is part of the reason that drove different species to Unitism, because the natural food web breaks down when your prey grow and reproduce at a similar rate as you.

[–] Jasperthewolf@pawb.social 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Also, due to the fact that predators will fight tooth and claw against the banning of predation in their species/taxa, the revolutionary wars tend to only end when almost all the hardline predators are dead, hence a "predator purge."

So does this pretty much mean genocide of predators species occurs? Is it more of a survival thing why some predator species join the Trophist side?

It's also implied that this change is part of the reason that drove different species to Unitism, because the natural food web breaks down when your prey grow and reproduce at a similar rate as you.

So with this sort of technological advancement, have species which evolved for specific environments (a fennec in a desert) been able to adapt more to pretty much any climate, similar to how we can? Is the world more of a “humans go extinct and animals pick up the pieces” thing, or more of a world where animals have their own sort of cities, nations and civilizations?

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 day ago (1 children)

So does this pretty much mean genocide of predators species occurs? Is it more of a survival thing why some predator species join the Trophist side?

It's an unfortunate result of neither the Unitist nor Trophist sides being willing to compromise on something so fundamental, but whether it's a "genocide" depends on your specific definition. For one, Unitist revolutionary wars happen within a species or taxon, so the genetic component to predation applies to all participants in the war. It's not herbivores killing carnivores as "revenge," it's carnivores looking to move past their predator status killing carnivores of the same species who are vehemently trying to hold them back. It's kind of like how in the American Revolution, Americans killed a lot of British people, even though Americans are basically just British people, in this case the genotype is not the target, but allegiances and loyalties.

This happens in reverse too, and it's not necessarily the Unitists who always instigate it. The Felines are a good example: Hundreds of years ago, Felines lived in individual clans with no real taxonomic or even species governments, and since they identified more with their clan than their species or taxon, the cultures of individual clans started to drift from each other. Some turned Unitist, most doubled down on Trophism, while others remained neutral. The formation of the Feline Empire which united all Felines into a single taxon was instigated by the Trophists, who basically conquered all the clans and enforced Trophism across the entire taxon to prevent the other clans from turning Unitist. Back then, Trophists massively outnumbered Unitists, so the purge happened in the other direction, and any Feline suspected of being Unitist were killed. They would stage hunting tests where if you failed to catch prey in front of the Trophist soldiers in the allotted time, they assumed you were out of practice because you weren't hunting on a daily basis because you were secretly Unitist, and killed you.

Even after these hunting tests were outlawed, the Feline Empire's tyranny and meddling in the lives of Felines was a major driver in turning nearly the entire Feline population secretly Unitist. When they tried to suppress a newly developed dietary enzyme supplement that worked seamlessly on obligate carnivores (obligate carnivores had ways of not eating meat before then, but dietary enzymes made it foolproof and basically impossible to get malnourished on a plant based diet), it was the last straw and caused the Feline Unitist revolution. The Feline empire then drafted every hardline Trophist they could find to fight against the Unitists, but the tables had turned and they found themselves both outnumbered and technologically inferior (again, because the Empire's insistence on the Feline's primal ways being the right way had alienated all the scientists and engineers), the result was pretty much inevitable.

This highlights a major difference in the way Unitists and Trophists reason about killings in revolutionary war. The Unitists would have liked nothing more than to peacefully turn everyone Unitist, but they were almost always fighting against violent and bloodthirsty Trophist armies that were intent on killing every single Unitist they could find, regardless of how peaceful or violent the Unitist individual was, to "preserve the natural order." Once such a revolution had been initiated (and it was rarely a particularly organized uprising, just an overwhelming majority population of Unitists and Unitist sympathizers whose hatred of Trophist system they're forced to live under finally bubbled over), it can pretty much only end until one side is dead, so while the Unitists aren't looking to kill all the Trophists, all the ones that won the war and survived long enough to actually build Unitist societies are inevitably the ones that did their fair share of killing, so you end up with this situation where Unitist societies are inherently pacifist, but getting to that stage involved a lot of bloodshed.

Finally, there are neutral territories and taxa which don't care if a carnivore hunts or doesn't hunt. Even in those societies though, the Trophist population tend to oppress the Unitist population and enforce a de facto Trophism.

(Also, I want to mention that this is not intended to be anything resembling real life socialist theory, and a proper socialist/materialist analysis on my worldbuilding would probably find a lot of contradictions. I'm just trying to tell an interesting story and while it has socialist influences, I'm not specifically trying to write "real" socialism with animals as a top priority. Most of this is developed mainly to let me write action and drama, and a lot of it was developed before I had really understood socialist theory. Just want to make that clear.)

So with this sort of technological advancement, have species which evolved for specific environments (a fennec in a desert) been able to adapt more to pretty much any climate, similar to how we can?

Absolutely! In fact, the Unitist taxonomic governments have Freedom of Migration between their territories, which means members of those taxa have the right to live anywhere else that's governed by a Unitist taxon, and other taxonomic governments are expected to accommodate migrant species with suitable habitat and infrastructure. Again, the end goal is to not have separate taxonomic governments and territories at all so this is seen as a head start to that.

A member of a Unitist taxon can generally live in any climate because their home will be climate controlled to their ideal parameters through heating and air conditioning. This also means that species who have yearly migrations can just choose to not migrate anymore, and even if they do, it will be for cultural reasons as opposed to not being able to live somewhere permanently.

Is the world more of a “humans go extinct and animals pick up the pieces” thing, or more of a world where animals have their own sort of cities, nations and civilizations?

Definitely the latter, at least in Unitist territories. Unitists have highly developed systems for managing and planning their ecosystems to best serve the animals that live there. Trophists tend to do not nearly as well in this regard, despite one of their main "arguments" against Unitism is that the ecosystem "needs" the food web.

[–] Jasperthewolf@pawb.social 0 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

The Feline empire then drafted every hardline Trophist they could find to fight against the Unitists, but the tables had turned and they found themselves both outnumbered and technologically inferior (again, because the Empire's insistence on the Feline's primal ways being the right way had alienated all the scientists and engineers), the result was pretty much inevitable

Does this happen in reverse too? Where a unitist country becomes way too in the other direction which leads to a backlash?

Unitists have highly developed systems for managing and planning their ecosystems to best serve the animals that live there

So in practice what does this look like? How about for animals which live in polar opposite climates? Also, how do land animals travel to different territories in this world? Walking would take a very long time given how big this world likely is.

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

Does this happen in reverse too? Where a unitist country becomes way too in the other direction which leads to a backlash?

It certainly can, but it has never happened so far, because interspecies cooperation is so beneficial to everyone that once animals get used to it the case to throw it all away is pretty weak. There are instances of neutral territories being overthrown by Trophists though.

So in practice what does this look like? How about for animals which live in polar opposite climates?

Even animals in polar opposite climates can generally do fine with short periods of time outside, with some thick clothing or evaporative cooling (spraying water on your fur and letting it evaporate). They would probably prefer a remote job that lets them stay home most of the time, and cities are designed such that they rarely have to walk very far to do their errands. But just as humans who choose to live in challenging environments, if you really want to live somewhere you can make it work.

Also, how do land animals travel to different territories in this world?

They have well developed public transit networks based on hovercrafts that connect different Unitist regions, scaling from Air Rapid Transit around a city, to inter-city, to inter-territory, to inter-continent. You can also pretty seamlessly transfer between long and short distance hovercraft networks, so you can basically fly to any destination with a few connections, often for free.

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