this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2026
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You guys are all much more well-read on communism than me, so I ask based on this quote:

As a reminder, the Sino-Soviet split occurred due to an ideological fracture in the Communist bloc whereby Mao accused the Soviets of being “revisionists” after Khrushchev’s de-Stalinization and his embrace of “peaceful coexistence” with the West.

Now that the ex-Soviet countries are pretty much all capitalist oligarchies and China is, well whatever it is but hugely successful and prosperous, is there a consensus about the Sino-Soviet split? I mean yea it sucks that it had to go down like that but can we say in general that Mao was right about that?

I know it's just an arbitrary point in time (as now) and that there were and are loads of factors at play so this is perhaps a simplistic way of framing it, but I'd love to get your thoughts on the matter. Every time I ask something of the dope-ass bear I'm blown away not just by how little I know but also that I wasn't even looking in the right direction, so if this is a stupid question I'm sure you'll let me know, lol.

EDIT: Thank you very much for your answers! Very informative.

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[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 84 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (3 children)

Mao was correct in that Khrushchev's actions severely undermined the socialist system, the now confirmed lies of the infamous "secret speech" resulted in a form of historical nihilism that led to a sort of internal doomerism about the socialist project among the populace. That being said, the split itself was in my opinion unquestionably negative, and resulted in some of China's worst foreign policy mistakes, such as siding with Cambodia against Vietnam, and the US against the USSR.

We cannot be certain, but it's likely that if the split never happened, that the USSR would still be around, in which case this was one of China's greatest strategic blunders in history, rejecting an impure ally and forcing all sorts of new contradictions. Regardless of Khrushchev's ghoulish power grab, this in no way justifies abandoning the largest other socialist power at the time, especially while soviet foreign policy remained comparatively great.

TL;DR Mao was right about Khrushchev, but the response partially contributed to the dissolution of the USSR along with some of the worst foreign policy from China. The soviets kept pretty great foreign policy all the way through the end of its existence by comparison.

As a side note, you should also ask Grad.

Edit: Deng Xiaoping Theory and Reform and Opening Up are qualitatively different from Khrushchev's reforms, hence the dramatic difference in results in both systems. This is important to understand as you research the Sino-Soviet split.

Regardless of the damage of the split, the manner of Khrushchev's reforms undermined socialist construction and the socialist project in general, while Deng's reforms built upon the industrialization started by Mao and managed to make the economic growth more stable, facilitate technological transfer to China, and undermine the US Empire's industrial base. Therein lies the modern success of socialidm with Chinese characteristics, but also why those who only uphold Deng and reject Mao in recognizing this are making a dramatic error.

[–] Awoo@hexbear.net 37 points 5 days ago (2 children)

100% Mao was right

But also China did really dumbass shit because of the split. I'm not really convinced that China only did that shit because of the split though, I think they might've had serious analytical errors as well.

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 37 points 5 days ago

Agreed, siding with Cambodia, the US over the USSR, all of these contributed to a dramatic undermining of socialism globally in a time that should have had unity.

[–] Tabitha@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago

But also China did really dumbass shit because of the split.

the cool thing about socialism is learning from your mistakes. in the US we just repeat the same mistakes over and over again repeatedly and never admit they were mistakes.

[–] PKMKII@hexbear.net 21 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That seems like a good take, Krushchev was throwing out the baby with the bathwater with his de-Stalinization, but Mao overreacted to it. While acknowledging that alternative history what-ifs are subject to a million pitfalls, I am curious what you think would’ve played out differently in a non-sino-soviet situation that would’ve avoided a collapse of the USSR (not asking as some back door critique, genuinely curious).

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 23 points 4 days ago

I really don't want to claim this as developed analysis, but had the soviets and PRC remained on good terms throughout, it's quite possible that various times they were antagonistic towards each other, such as Vietnam vs Cambodia, they would have been aligned, increasing the stability of the socialist bloc and creating a larger pool of productive forces to share.

Part of why China went to the US for investment for Reform and Opening Up was necessity for making growth stable, growth was already positive under Mao but uneven and fluctuated greatly. This is currently backfiring against the US as they hollowed out their industrial power, and the shared technology with the PRC is why they are where they are today, but I believe that a larger, more stable socialist bloc would have perhaps avoided some of the concessions made in order to go this path.

[–] SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 17 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Deng Xiaoping Theory and Reform and Opening Up are qualitatively different from Khrushchev's reforms

I don't disagree, but I'd love it if you went into some depth about those differences.

The ultra/maoist position is that both reforms effectively meant immediate capitalist restoration, and I'm interested to hear a more nuanced take

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 33 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

In the shortest and most simplistic terms, Khrushchev's point was that the soviet union had advanced so far that class struggle was effectively over, and that the state did not need to represent a particular class. This enabled liberalization and carelessness down the road.

The Gang of Four took the opposite stance, effectively heightening class struggle over the development of the productive forces and eradication of poverty. The basis of communism is in large industry, not small cooperatives, and thus this led to errors.

Deng's position is that class struggle continues, and that the state needs to remain a working class dictatorship, but that building up the productive forces is also critically important, and that introducing foreign capital to help is a safe way to do so as long as the commanding heights of industry, the large firms and key industries, finance, etc, remained dominated by the state. Where Khrushchev took a more blind approach, not to mention destalinization, Deng's reforms were more calculated and measured.

To put it in an analogy, Khrushchev thought that since they had pretty good electric heating, there was no risk of fire. China had some small level of electric heating, and was governed by people insistent on not using traditional fire for warmth in the midst of winter. Deng maintained electric heating as dominant while adding controlled fireplaces, as Khrushchev's refusal to protect against fire led to their house burning down.

This is all extremely oversimplified and is my opinion alone, not the Hexbear line.

[–] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 17 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Which flavor of socialism are refrigeration-cycle based air source heat pumps?

[–] Cowbee@hexbear.net 19 points 4 days ago

That's the Juche Idea.