this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2025
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[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (20 children)

We can assume their weapons will have similar markup, maybe even more.

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -5 points 2 months ago (19 children)
[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (18 children)

Can you please explain how a list of countries with the highest military expenditures is evidence that weapons used by the US aren't bought/produced for a ridiculous markup?

Like, the claim m352 is making is "the american military spends unreasonable amounts of money on weapons for no benefit, because of how much graft and how many middlepeople exist in the american weapon supply chain".

And the evidence you use to counter this claim is "the US spends much, much more money on weapons than Russia". And like, yeah, no kidding the US spends much more on its military than Russia does, but I don't see how that has anything to do with m352's claim.

So can you please draw the connection for me? How does your response here address the comment you're responding to?

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Can you please explain how a list of countries with the highest military expenditures is evidence that weapons used by the US aren’t bought/produced for a ridiculous markup?

Again just look at the evidence:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_B-2_Spirit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_of_the_United_States_Navy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_submarines_of_the_United_States_Navy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore

These are just some random USA war assets, in case you fail to understand what spending a trillion dollars a year in war gets you.

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I still don't understand what evidence you're finding on these Wikipedia pages. Like, ok, I read the Wikipedia page for the F-22. What am I supposed to get out of my reading? What should I have learned from that page?

Can you please actually draw the connection you're making, explicitly? Because I legitimately do not understand what you're trying to say

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You are replying to a series of comments about NATO not being able to field an actual war against Russia.

if NATO decides to field a war against russia with the war assets they spend trillions on such as hundreds of f22, almost a thousand f35, a hundred nuclear submarines and all the shit they have like the most advanced cyberwarfare weapons in the world, how does russia respond?

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So all these Wikipedia articles are evidence for the claim "NATO would trounce Russia if they were actually trying"? And the evidence I'm supposed to be getting from these articles is "look at all these extremely expensive war planes, clearly they're better than their Russian counterparts, they're more expensive".

Is that a fair characterization of your point?

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

You didn't answer the question, go ahead and bring up the 10x cheaper russian assets that can match fleets of f22 and f35

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You want me to answer the question that is your last paragraph?

I have no idea! I don't live in Russia, I'm not well-versed in modern warfare and military technology, I haven't studied diplomacy, I have no idea how Russia would respond if nato suddenly brings to bear every piece of military hardware it can muster.

Literally all I'm saying is that more expensive doesn't always mean better quality. That's literally it

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -4 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Literally all I’m saying is that more expensive doesn’t always mean better quality. That’s literally it

You are right, more expensive doesn't always mean better quality or more products that's why I am referring to assets made with these money that show that in this case spending 10x more than everyone else is resulting in a bigger and more advanced army

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

in this case spending 10x more than everyone else is resulting in a bigger and more advanced army

This is the part I think you haven't shown, even a little bit. First you linked a wikipedia page which was a list of countries with the highest military expenditures, then you linked wikipedia pages for a bunch of american military hardware. At no point did you try to compare american military hardware with Russian military hardware, either in quantity or quality. The only comparison you've made is in terms of expense.

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz -1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

It's not that hard you can compare it yourself, google how many military assets russia have. USA spend a trillion in war each year and as a result they have almost a thousand operative fifth generation planes (for comparison russia has less than 25). USA has about 70 nuclear submarines where russia has 20

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Now we're finally getting to a real argument! Now you're arguing that the US is better prepared for war than Russia is, not just that the US spends more money on war than Russia does.

I do notice, however, that you have linked not a single article or source for the claims in these comments. Where are your numbers coming from?

You might be right that the US is more prepared for war than Russia is. I'm not convinced, and also I think m532 has a good point that nukes (which both the us and Russia have) change everything, but you could still be right.

I'm actually not that interested in whether the claim "america would easily beat Russia if they actually tried" is true. My entire reason for engaging was simply to point out that "the US spends more on war and hence is necessarily better prepared for war" is not a good argument; the conclusion does not follow from the premise.

If you want to convince people on the internet, you should practice making better arguments, and sourcing them properly. Your argumentation in this thread has been abysmal and I wanted to help you see that and make improvements

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)
[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Well I did read the F-22 page, as I said before. You're right that I didn't read the rest of them because at that point in the conversation I was extremely confused as to why you'd linked them in the first place.

I see that the US built a total of 195 F-22's. That number isn't any of the ones you listed in your one comment that had some numbers.

To be charitable to you, I might be able to find the 1000 warplanes and 70 nuclear sub numbers somewhere in the wikipedia pages you linked. I'm not going to read them, I'm really not into military hardware, but if you tell me that's where you got the numbers, I'll go ahead and believe you. It would be better practice, though, to quote a passage that includes the relevant figures, then link to the place you're quoting from.

Now what about the numbers for Russian warplanes and Russian nuclear subs? What are your sources for those figures? They surely aren't found in a wikipedia article about the american military

[–] brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Now what about the numbers for Russian warplanes and Russian nuclear subs? What are your sources for those figures? They surely aren’t found in a wikipedia article about the american military

In the wikipedia article about the russian military

[–] Are_Euclidding_Me@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Which you haven't linked.

If I go to wikipedia and search "Russian military" will I find an article with those numbers?

Why can't you quote the relevant sections, then link to what you're quoting from? That's how sources in an argument are supposed to work.

[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 months ago

Russia has hypersonic nukes, usa doesn't. It doesn't matter how much you spend, if you get hypersonic nuked you are dead.

[–] jorge@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 month ago

The US lost to Yemen.

[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 2 months ago

Artillery, antiair, icbms, nukes, drones, submarines

[–] m532@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 months ago

They could just carpet nuke usa 10x over. There is no winning against a nuclear power.

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