this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2025
36 points (84.6% liked)

Communism

9929 readers
76 users here now

Discussion Community for fellow Marxist-Leninists and other Marxists.

Rules for /c/communism

Rules that visitors must follow to participate. May be used as reasons to report or ban.

  1. No non-marxists

This subreddit is here to facilitate discussion between marxists.

There are other communities aimed at helping along new communists. This community isn't here to convert naysayers to marxism.

If you are a member of the police, armed forces, or any other part of the repressive state apparatus of capitalist nations, you will be banned.

  1. No oppressive language

Do not attempt to justify your use of oppressive language.

Doing this will almost assuredly result in a ban. Accept the criticism in a principled manner, edit your post or comment accordingly, and move on, learning from your mistake.

We believe that speech, like everything else, has a class character, and that some speech can be oppressive. This is why speech that is patriarchal, white supremacist, cissupremacist, homophobic, ableist, or otherwise oppressive is banned.

TERF is not a slur.

  1. No low quality or off-topic posts

Posts that are low-effort or otherwise irrelevant will be removed.

This is not a place to engage in meta-drama or discuss random reactionaries on lemmy or anywhere else.

This includes memes and circlejerking.

This includes most images, such as random books or memorabilia you found.

We ask that amerikan posters refrain from posting about US bourgeois politics. The rest of the world really doesn’t care that much.

  1. No basic questions about marxism

Posts asking entry-level questions will be removed.

Questions like “What is Maoism?” or “Why do Stalinists believe what they do?” will be removed, as they are not the focus on this forum.

  1. No sectarianism

Marxists of all tendencies are welcome here.

Refrain from sectarianism, defined here as unprincipled criticism. Posts trash-talking a certain tendency or marxist figure will be removed. Circlejerking, throwing insults around, and other pettiness is unacceptable.

If criticisms must be made, make them in a principled manner, applying Marxist analysis.

The goal of this subreddit is the accretion of theory and knowledge and the promotion of quality discussion and criticism.

Check out ProleWiki for a communist wikipedia.

Communism study guide

bottombanner

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I am unfortunately not at a point yet where I can write my own additions to this piece but I wanted to start venturing into gender and gender roles because there are a lot of marxists who repeat, no doubt because it seems to make sense on the surface, that gender is a social construct or that it should be abolished. A lot of it is Butlerian in nature and I highly recommend Leslie Feinberg who was positioned against the butlerian view of gender.

The sense of self is completely omitted in the Butlerian view of gender (as a performance), in that as a (cis) man if I acted (performed) like a woman and put on women's clothes, then that theory states I would be a woman. But I would not feel like one, because I know I'm not a woman. And if I lived in a false reality that forced me act like a man all my life from childhood to the point that I also believed I was a man (say in the same way you can make someone believe the sky is red if you berate them enough), then what explains that trans people specifically are able to "break out" of this mold? A lot of common (in marxist circles) feminist theory is unfortunately completely dismissive of trans people, trans men especially - if gender is a construct to pit oppressors and oppressed then why would anyone "choose" to be part of the oppressed group? Everyone ought to perform as men if that were the case. As for gender abolitionism, the author makes the case in their essay :)

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Faux@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 3 days ago (7 children)

I believe that gender is going to wither away in communist society eventually. As it is a construct tightly coupled with patriarchy.

Abolishing gender in any society existing today is as idealistic as abolishing Christianity in yankeeland though. Social roles and expectations imposed by patriarchy are part of people's reality. We need people's consent to abolish gender and to be able to consent, people need to have awareness of gender first.

Also, gender doesn't exist in isolation. Dismantling patriarchy will be more nuanced than dismantling its elements separately. And it will require material basis we might not currently have anywhere in the world to address it properly. (inheritance is part of the patriarchal system too!)

For now we should respect people's struggles within the patriarchal framework and give trans people our critical support.

Gender will wither away with material conditions changing, not with us saying it shouldn't exist.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I think that's what the author wants to challenge; with gender withering away, then trans people will simply cease to exist - not as people of course, people will still be born with consciousness (sapience? I'm not sure how you call it in english), but their gender will cease to exist, and what will they be? The author's theory is that being trans is not only important to them, but precedes patriarchy and thus gender abolition will not fix oppression - gender is not the product of oppression and can exist without it.

I do agree, personally, that it's a very far off event, but I have also changed my mind on whether it's "important" to talk about now. By which I mean, I used to think that because it was so far off, then it wasn't really urgent to worry over it - it will happen long after I'm dead, there's nothing to it now. But I have since changed my mind after I saw for myself gender abolitionists who are ultimately transphobic, and they didn't come to this conclusion by accident. Can we say that they are only using gender abolition to confirm their transphobic views? Maybe, but it's still important to talk about and understand gender, because trans people (and non-binary people) exist right now.

[–] Imnecomrade@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

But I have since changed my mind after I saw for myself gender abolitionists who are ultimately transphobic, and they didn’t come to this conclusion by accident. Can we say that they are only using gender abolition to confirm their transphobic views?

I imagine these people are the same or close to those who say "they don't see color".

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Actually all of them were very steeped in radical feminist literature!

[–] LisaTrevor@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 days ago

yeah but terfs are lying. when they say they want to "abolish gender" they're really saying they want to keep gender and just call it sex while abolishing gender roles

when I, a marxist transfeminist, say that ultimately gender should be abolished, I more accurately mean that sex assignment and categorization should be fundamentally deconstructed and reformed without the cishetero patriarchal baggage (typing this on my phone so I can't really go into detail right now but I'll try and make a proper response to this piece later)

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)