this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2025
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I am unfortunately not at a point yet where I can write my own additions to this piece but I wanted to start venturing into gender and gender roles because there are a lot of marxists who repeat, no doubt because it seems to make sense on the surface, that gender is a social construct or that it should be abolished. A lot of it is Butlerian in nature and I highly recommend Leslie Feinberg who was positioned against the butlerian view of gender.

The sense of self is completely omitted in the Butlerian view of gender (as a performance), in that as a (cis) man if I acted (performed) like a woman and put on women's clothes, then that theory states I would be a woman. But I would not feel like one, because I know I'm not a woman. And if I lived in a false reality that forced me act like a man all my life from childhood to the point that I also believed I was a man (say in the same way you can make someone believe the sky is red if you berate them enough), then what explains that trans people specifically are able to "break out" of this mold? A lot of common (in marxist circles) feminist theory is unfortunately completely dismissive of trans people, trans men especially - if gender is a construct to pit oppressors and oppressed then why would anyone "choose" to be part of the oppressed group? Everyone ought to perform as men if that were the case. As for gender abolitionism, the author makes the case in their essay :)

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[–] alyqz@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (2 children)

Edit to add: Thank you for posting this. This is a topic I've been thinking about a lot, but have struggled to find good material on.


I both agree and disagree with different parts of this. I'll break this in two parts.

---=== On Judith Butler (not nesisarily anyone claiming to be Butlerian) ===---

I believe Butler was pulling from performative language and not trying to imply that gender is a conscious act or performance in of itself. It is more along the lines of what society perceives as gender is the result of actions, culture, perceptions, and feelings. Additionally, something being a social construct does not mean that it isn't real or inpactful, money is a social construct after all.

Actions can convey meaning beyond what they imply in isolation. Just as a judge pronouncing a verdict in a trial carries different meaning and impact than a drunk dude at the bar saying the same words, a cis man dressing in women's clothes is different than a trans woman doing the same.

This is the type of performativity being referenced: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performativity

This is a good overview of Butler from Philosophy Tube (She is clear that she had previously misunderstood Butler): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVilpxowsUQ

---=== On feminism and trans people ===---

I struggled with the purity tests, hatred, and general bad takes under the banner of feminism for years (I've unfortunately had personal experience with people who makevstraw feminists look like amatures). This probably added years to the time it took for me to come out to myself aa trans, and it wasn't until I came to the understanding that "feminism" is more accurately thought as a collection of related ideologies/philosophies, or "feminisms", that I became comfortable considering myself a feminist.

Essentialism is something that has strong roots in many feminisms, including, sometimes especially, ones that claim to be gender abolitionist and the like. One would think that trans people would be sought after for their perspectives from both sides of the fence, but in my experience that is rarely the case. By their very existence, trans people make the nice neat boxes used in the us vs them arguments fall apart. I think this is why trans women are often expected to toe the party line if they want to be accepted as women and trans men are so often either infantalized or treated as defectors to the enemy.

Gender also takes quite a bit of effort to understand, and cis people are far more often than not unwilling to put the effort in that understanding would require. Especially since it would require understanding and even empathy for the enemy.

---=== Misc ===---

I think gender is a social construct in so much as it loses all meaning without a concept of social interaction, but just like money or class can have a huge impact on one's life. It is also rooted in one's core sense of self and not a choice.

People in power will use whatever is available to oppress, but it doesn't mean that those things were invented for that purpose.

[–] CriticalResist8@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Thank you for posting! I also struggle to understand gender fully, and that essay (and talking to the author, since we are both on prolewiki) is further confounding it for me lol. That's why I didn't add too much in the text box. I'll check out the video from philosophy tube.

I think gender is a social construct in so much as it loses all meaning without a concept of social interaction, but just like money or class can have a huge impact on one’s life. It is also rooted in one’s core sense of self and not a choice.

I wanted to add something to that part you wrote but it left my mind as soon as it entered. That's why I have trouble wrapping my head around gender in details, any time my neurons fire off a valuable insight I lose it seconds later 😵‍💫

I think what I wanted to say was that if there is an innate sense of gender (in the self), then it cannot solely be a social construct and there is material reality to gender outside of what we make it conform to be, or something like that.

[–] SmallBear@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 1 week ago

So... speaking as someone who is trans myself, I think the part of this that makes it difficult to make that last assertaion is... how do we know that there is an innate sense of gender (in the self) that is separate from the social construction of gender? I have a very strong sense of what my gender is but... how do I know that didn't develop it at least partially from my interactions with the society I live in? I don't know where my "sense of gender" came from, and I don't know if it's innate or learned. Either way it's a very real experience.

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: