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Do some people just regurgitate arguments blindly? (lemmygrad.ml)

submitted 2 days ago by King_Simp@lemmygrad.ml to c/comradeship@lemmygrad.ml

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I notice this with people talking about capitalism, obviously, but honestly what drove me to make this post is the attempted arguments against veganism. They're basically 95% unoriginal and fail under the most basic of scrutiny.

Take, for example, "not eating the meat won't bring the cow back." Under basically any logical scrutiny, this is a clear double standard to any other purchasing decision in capitalist society, and doesn't really make any sense. But I've seen in so many times over the years, so much so that im planning on becoming a vegan over a period of time. Not because of any arguments vegans make, but because somehow pro-meat eaters are losing a debate to a brick wall, and the conclusions I've made myself have convinced myself that I should be vegan. And I'm really starting to ask, do people just...like...ctrl+c ctrl+v arguments in their head?

I...try to be nice. But...how little respect to your own ability do you have if you do that? Not only to justify something you really don't have to, but something you obviously dont care about. I mean...sorry, it's just baffling to me.

In the words of Kim Kitsuragi from disco elysium, "I dont understand officer...please, help me understand"

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[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It is disrespectful to paint someone as having no "respect for the other living, thinking, feeling creatures we share this Earth with" based on zero evidence; because you disagree with what I said, you decided to vilify someone you don't know and whose perspective you clearly don't understand. Now you portray me as being "outraged at vegans" which is also baseless. I expressed outraged at a person trivializing an ongoing genocide of human beings by comparing it to factory farming, which I believe is a reasonable reaction and still do, and believing that does not somehow mean I don't care about animals. If that were how things worked, then it would never be reasonable to insist one issue is worse than another, lest you are accused of not caring about the "lesser" issue.

Prior to that, what I did was go through a perspective, one which is common in socialist/communist circles for talking about capitalism as a whole, for why the solution to something is not as simple as individuals making the "correct" moral choice in their individual lives. This is an issue with capitalism that we talk about over and over and it doesn't suddenly become irrelevant just because it's an issue you might care more about.

And BTW, the more shock value rhetoric and spurious attacks you and others pull out on this, the harder it becomes to take any of you seriously. I will still believe factory farming is an issue either way and I will still support those who go vegan for trying to do something about it, no matter how small. But I certainly don't see any reason to listen to any of you who have gone 0 to 100 at me about it.

[–] booty@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

It is disrespectful to paint someone as having no "respect for the other living, thinking, feeling creatures we share this Earth with" based on zero evidence;

Again, not zero evidence. My evidence is the words you said. The words which stem from your lack of respect for other animals.

Now you portray me as being "outraged at vegans" which is also baseless. I expressed outraged at a person

A vegan

trivializing an ongoing genocide of human beings

comparing one horrific crime against innocents to another.

That you frame it this way stems from your lack of respect for the innocents in question.

and believing that does not somehow mean I don't care about animals.

In my opinion it does.

If that were how things worked, then it would never be reasonable to insist one issue is worse than another, lest you are accused of not caring about the "lesser" issue.

Murdering ten people is obviously worse than murdering two people, but you would never accuse someone of "trivializing" the murder of ten people if they compared these two hypothetical events.

The issue isn't that you see one issue as wrong and another issue as worse--you don't see genocide against non-human animals as wrong at all. That's why you find it outrageous to compare it to genocides against humans, which you do see as wrong.

Prior to that, what I did was go through a perspective, one which is common in socialist/communist circles for talking about capitalism as a whole, for why the solution to something is not as simple as individuals making the "correct" moral choice in their individual lives. This is an issue with capitalism that we talk about over and over and it doesn't suddenly become irrelevant just because it's an issue you might care more about.

Okay. Let's consider this perspective in regard to another issue. "You choosing not to buy from Israel isn't going to instantly end the genocide in Palestine. Therefore it is completely cool and okay to give any amount of monetary support to Israel." You surely wouldn't agree with this statement, right? Then why express this stance with regard to other crimes? (The answer of course is that you don't think animal abuse is a crime, you like and support it and would prefer if we vegans would simply stop pointing out how horrific it is.)

And BTW, the more shock value rhetoric and spurious attacks you and others pull out on this, the harder it becomes to take any of you seriously.

You're the only one attacking anyone by smugly saying how much restraint you have not to hurl insults at us for holding basic vegan positions, and by saying we "can't be taken seriously" and so on.

[–] amemorablename@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You’re the only one attacking anyone by smugly saying how much restraint you have not to hurl insults at us for holding basic vegan positions, and by saying we “can’t be taken seriously” and so on.

That's something you're projecting onto me. I'm not trying to be smug at all. When I said I was trying not to say something nasty, I meant it very literally because I was upset about what the other person had said and was quite literally trying not to devolve into insults/rudeness over it. When I said "I certainly don’t see any reason to listen to any of you who have gone 0 to 100 at me about it", I meant that too very literally.

Not everything is about feeling morally superior. Maybe I just don't want to listen to you go off on me. Would you want to listen to yourself?

[–] booty@hexbear.net 2 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

When I said "I certainly don’t see any reason to listen to any of you who have gone 0 to 100 at me about it", I meant that too very literally.

Dawg this is a 1. I'm being very polite. The problem is that any disagreement with you is a 100 in your mind.

Would you want to listen to yourself?

Yeah actually. I originally went vegan because of people being at least a 50 compared to my 1. And I realized, "Huh, this person is right. I have no logical response to their criticisms of my unethical behavior." Then I went vegan.

It's your turn. Look into your heart; you know you're wrong, but you don't want to admit that you've spent your entire life up till now being wrong. Believe me, no one cares. The time to change is now.