this post was submitted on 05 Sep 2025
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[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You need a foundation in what freedom of speech is and then pair that with the complicated reality we are facing. Your definition of freedom of speech is nonsensical at best.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Define freedom of speech. This is not a hard question.

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Freedom of speech refers to government action in public space to suppress speech it does not agree with.

For instance, in our colleges there was some pro-palestine demonstrations. In Florida the government issued a decree to disband SJC. This is classic suppression of free speech because it involves a government action in a public space.

Because we live in a fascist oligarchy though it becomes complicated because corporations simultaneously are controlled and control the government. This merger of the state and corporations complicates the simple definition of freedom of speech.

[–] lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's freedom from legal (or government) sanction, censorship, or retaliation for expressing opinions or ideas.

Because we live in a fascist oligarchy

corporations simultaneously are controlled and control the government

That's a stretch. Where was that government control of private companies during the Biden administration or previous administrations dating back to the beginning of the Epstein crimes? Is the government controlling MSNBC, New York Times, CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS? Private companies aren't legal authorities, and they aren't legally obligated to repeat or broadcast anyone's speech: that's how social media nowadays defends deplatforming. Would your claim mean that deplatforming suppresses free speech?

Trump supporters saying STFU doesn't amount to legal sanctions. I've only seen the Trump administration evade, deny, or deflect. Where are the legal sanctions suppressing the speech of Epstein victims?

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The government exerts influence through subversive means pretty regularly. It is common for them to do things like have people or organizations cut off from the financial system. This is not always done through legal channels but the results are the same.

If MasterCard or Visa stop doing business with you it is their right. But what if the government asked them to without a court order. This is a real life scenario that happens.

We can also see this with our current news reporting where the government excerpts control over the media and the media follows without court orders.

Is deplatforming against free speech? Well if it is influenced by the government then I think you could argue it is. If Trump makes a vague threat like X company is making the hugest mistake by supporting Y and then their platform voluntarily changes their stance or removes speech, that could also be interpreted as suppression.

There is no smoking gun though or legal order people might say. I think if the results are the same it doesn't matter.

Is the government controlling media? I think the answer is most certainly yes. Would you argue the government is not currently using its massive influence to control the media. We have always had an illusion of independent media. The problem is all media is controlled by a handful of wealthy individuals that are influenced and influence the government.

If we did have independent diverse media why do they all repeat the exact same talking points? I am sorry, but I am not naive enough to believe any of that nonsense. This is not new, the capture of the media world happened a long time ago, but a recent critique that was meaningful was found in Goodnight and Good luck.

The US has always had major issues with government propaganda. The entire system is propped up on lies stacked upon lies. A great example of this was after 9/11 when the government used propaganda and islamophobia to attack Iraq.

The media quickly fell inline following the governments direction and stopping critical analysis of what was happening. Having lived through this the effect on the media was obvious and chilling. Criticism of the President and their actions was all but silenced.

We can easily determine the government can exert influence without legal orders so your questions about where are the legal sanctions is either naive or disingenuous.

Lastly, I am not here to argue that saying STFU is suppression of free speech. This in itself is propaganda used to distract. It is a stupid reframing of what is really going on.