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Communism bad
(lemmygrad.ml)
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this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2023
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In my country, communist killed so many people for political reasons. They ruined so many people's lives. They stole landowners land and ruined it. They denied people from studying because their parents owned a shop or a company. They condemned or executed czech RAF pilots who escaped from Czechoslovakia when nazis occupied it to fought against nazis and communists did it to them because the pilots fought against nazis with the British army and Great Britain was now enemy of USSR. Communist executed woman called Milada Horáková (who were also active in underground resistance against nazis). They executed her because she was in other political party and communists banned all other parties except communist party. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milada_Hor%C3%A1kov%C3%A1 People who profited from communism the most was people who informed the secret police about who said something negative about communists. From wikipedia article about that secret police:
Some of the practices that communist were using were taken from nazis or even worse than the nazi ones. We had our version of gulags in Czechoslovakia. Their purpose wasn't to kill people like in the nazi concentration camps, but working conditions were similar or even worse that in the nazi concentration camp. This is just few random things that I've had on my mind and it's just a fragment of what communists did in Czechoslovakia and very similar things were happening in other Soviet block countries. I don't believe anybody who lived in communism could create meme like this, because working communism without dictatorship and abusing of human rights is a pure utopia. So yes, millions of families suffered and still suffer under communism and in most cases, it's not their fault. And yes, communism bad.
I'm gonna need some higher quality sources than Wikipedia for this one.
They're usually at the bottom of the Wikipedia article.
For what exactly? It's things that even communists in the Czechia do not deny, it's like general knowledge here. For example for the work camps in Jáchymov where prisoners were forced to mine uranium, I was there year ago. I saw what remains from the camps. There was a museum with some photos, list of people who died there and which ones were political prisoners. There was letters that prisoners were smuggling from the camp to inform their families that they are alive. There were also video interviews with people who survived it. What I find the most convincing is the testimony of people who lived in communism in Czechoslovakia. Many people who survived the work camps are still alive and there is a project called "Memory of the nation". In this project, people are interviewing the old people who lived in communism. I personally done it once, I interviewed mr. Brožek. There are over 16000 people who were interviewed and when you listen to it, when you see the old people talking about the monstrosities they experienced or when you even do the interview, it's really convincing. I do not believe that these people all made it up or that somebody told them to say that. As I said, there's nobody denying it. And in Czechoslovakia there were basically no communists arrested or punished after the revolution, so I belive that if it was made up, somebody would say it's made up. Also you can't pay that many people to lie. I'm pretty sure that in 20 years when all these people will be dead, people will start to deny it, but now when all these people are alive and lots of them had family members or friends executed, falsely sentenced or persecuted in other ways, nobody will say it's not true. Also strangely, communist party was never banned, even after revolution, but in the most recent elections in 2021, they had 3,6% of the votes. That also proves that nobody wants communism in Czechia after 40 years of their dictatorship. Here is the link for the Memory of the nation project, it's in czech, but you can use the translate page feature and most of the interviews are also avaivable in text form, so you should be able to translate them: https://www.pametnaroda.cz/cs/archive
EDIT: Also, I was in the archive in Prague where lots of documents are stored, mostly StB folder of people they were were watching for various reasons. There are tons of material and I don't think anybody would want to fake it, it would be lot of work for no real reason.
So you are saying that the people in your country did not receive enough repression to retaliate against the Communist after the dissolution of the USSR, that prisoners get jobs, and that the witness in the prison camps were not executed to hide the 'horror' of prison camps. Also, the Communists somehow use enough conspiracy to maintain rule and deception, but do little to stop the delivery of letters from the prisoners to their families outside of the prisons. You mentioned videos and testimony of the witnesses, but have no link to them. You only cite a source that mentions the list of witnesses without the actual testimonies of the witnesses. You should at least mention the examples of the acts of "horrors" by the Communists.
Len sa nerozplač. (Just don't cry.)
Now that's an argument!
Všetci v Jachýmove boli určite nevinný. Rovnako boli nevinný Biela Légia, Černý Lev 777 a teroristi Mašínovci a nesmiem zabudnúť na Horákovú ktorá na 101% neviedla proti vládne aktivity. A KSČM nemá ani riadny program tých by som nevolil ani ja rovnako ako KSS. Najviac sa mi páči ako každý rok máme nových antikomunistických hrdinov ktorí boli vraj mučený komunistami a určite nič není pritiahnuté za vlasy. (Everyone in Jachýmov was definitely innocent. The White Legion, Černý Lev 777 and the Mašín terrorists were also innocent, and I must not forget Horáková, who 101% did not lead against government activities. And KSČM doesn't even have a proper program, I wouldn't vote for them either, just like KSS. What I like most is how every year we have new anti-communist heroes who were allegedly tortured by the communists and certainly nothing is far-fetched.)
Kurwa coś idzie zrozumieć pomimo różnicy naszych języków.
Not everyone in Jáchymov was innocent. Many people were, however. Nobody deserves to die in inhumane conditions after mining uranium for political reasons. In nazi concentration camps, there were also some people who wasn't innocent. That doesn't justify the existence of these monstrous places. Mašín brothers commited murders and are not heroes. But maybe if communists didn't build electric fences around country (they were saying is great place to live in, so why would anybody want to escape), Mašíns would just leave the country. Milada Horáková did nothing illegal. She was against communists and she protested against them taking over the country. She didn't lead anti government activities. Can you please tell me what activities did she do? Especially activities for which she deserves being strangled for more than 13 minutes? Please, go to https://www.pametnaroda.cz/cs/archive, watch listen to some of the thousands of people talking about what they experienced. Some of them cannot hold tears when they talk about communists murdered their loved ones or did other things I have already mentioned. Then tell me how it's all fake or far-fetched.
Možno to nevieš ale koncentrák kde zomrelo milióny ľudí je odlišný od pracovného táboru na ťaženie uránia. Horáková bola antikomunista a reakcionár a neexistuje dôkaz že bola nevinná. A nepotrebujem Pamäť Národa aby mi hovorili ako sa počas komunistov žilo a čo si mám o nich myslieť. Celá moja rodina žila v Československu a z ich rozprávania si viem vytvoriť vlastný názor nepotrebujem na to vládnu antikomunistickú organizáciu. A nehovoria o ňom vždy v najlepšom, moja rodina bola a je veriaca čiže ti nemusím hovoriť aké to mali niekedy ťažké ale aj tak o ČSSR hovoria pozitívne. Čím to môže byť možno preto že ČSSR zaručila prácu všetkým občanom, elekrifikovala a plynofikovala krajinu, v každom meste postavila továreň, postavila vodné a tepelné elektrárne, postavila nemocnice, zdravotné strediská a zaistila bezplatnú zdravotnú starostlivosť, postavila obrovské množstvo cenovo dostupných bytov ktoré dnes majú takú cenu že hypotéku treba splácať celý život, vybudovala pionierské tábory, postavila dialnice, do dôchodku sa odchádzalo v 60 niekedy aj skôr, zabezpečila sebestačnosť vo výrobe potravín. Ukáž mi jediný národ našej veľkosti ktorý dokázal vyvíjať a vyrábať prúdové lietadlá, dopravné lietadlá, atómové reaktory, lokomotívy, trolejbusy, autobusy, traktory, radary, motocykle, automobily, špičkové zbrane, tkáčske stroje, poľnohospodárske stroje, obrovské turbíny, námorné lode, tanky, špičkové sklárske a porcelánové výrobky, podieľať sa na vesmírnom výskume a vyrábať kvalitnú oceľ a hútnické výrobky. Dnes nevyvíjame nič sme iba montovňa automobilov.(You may not know this, but a concentration camp where millions of people died is different from a work camp for uranium mining. Horáková was an anti-communist and a reactionary, and there is no proof that she was innocent. And I don't need the Memory of the Nation to tell me how life was under the communists and what I should think about them. My whole family lived in Czechoslovakia and I can form my own opinion from their stories, I don't need a government anti-communist organization for that. And they don't always talk about him in the best way, my family was and is a religious, so I don't have to tell you how hard it was at times, but they still talk positively about the Czechoslovakia. Why can this be because the Czechoslovak Republic guaranteed work for all citizens, electrified and gasified the country, built a factory in every city, built water and thermal power plants, built hospitals, health centers and ensured free health care, built a huge number of affordable apartments that they have today such a price that the mortgage has to be paid off throughout life, built pioneer camps, built highways, people retired at 60 sometimes even earlier, ensured self-sufficiency in food production. Show me a single nation of our size that has been able to develop and manufacture jet planes, airliners, nuclear reactors, locomotives, trolleybuses, buses, tractors, radars, motorcycles, automobiles, high-tech weapons, weaving machines, agricultural machinery, giant turbines, naval ships, tanks , glass and porcelain products, participate in space research and produce quality steel and metallurgical products. Today we are not developing anything, we are just a car assembly plant.)
I'm not saying that Jáchymov and concentration camp are the same. I'm saying that according to the statement of many people who were there, the conditions were similar. I'm also saying that in both cases, you can argue that not everyone there was innocent. The problem is that there were innocent people sent there on purpose. Horáková was anti-communist. She was reactionary in the meaning that she wanted another political regime. Neither of these makes her guilty of anything. In any political regime, there are people against it. Even now, and we don't hang them up. The fact that there is no proof she was innocent is a complete bullshit argument. If you have a presumption of innocence, it means nothing. If you have a presumption of guilt, I can say there's no evidence of your grandma not secretly leading resistance. Any modern society requires evidence to prove somebody being guilty, not innocent. Your family is one family. In the Memory of the nation's archive, you can liten to thousands of people's stories. By saying it's an anti-communist organization, are you saying it's fake? Do you think that the people are lying or what? There are also interviews with communists in their archives. Czechoslovak Republic had a great economy. That's certainly true, but at least for me, it doesn't justify totalitarian regime with killing political enemies, locking the country behind the iron curtain and doing all the other things I have already written that you either ignore or marginalize. If all the things that were happening here are still worth for good economy for you, than this debate can be ended because we we can't agree on that. If you do not believe it, even with all the proves and all the people saying it, if you think all the thousands of interviews by the Memory of the nation are fake, somebody has written all the tons of documents in the archive in Prague after revolution and made it all up for no actual reason, if you believe that somebody just made up all the information trails and museums and all of this was done and still is being done by the goverment even when communists are not a political threat for them and our government that is not very capable in most cases is able to keep this secret for years, and you believe it just because nobody from your family wasn't falsely sentenced or executed or tortured or shot when trying to leave the country or anything else, this debate can also be ended because i'm not able to convince you about the opposite.
For me, it's not that information is 'made up'. It's a question of emphasis and one-sidedness. And there is a reason for the dominant narrative. You said:
But this is false. Communists are and always will be a threat to liberals and fascists. They can be slandered, tortured, imprisoned, misrepresented, and killed. But they will never disappear. They will never stop fighting. And they will never be finally silenced. That is why capitalists spend so much money, time, and effort distorting history. This is the reason you're looking for.
Wikipedia is not a trustworthy source to the extent that college professors automatically failed student's assignment that cited wikipedia. Why can you not cite other sources like the many propaganda that NATO commonly distributed for free on the internet?