this post was submitted on 06 May 2025
53 points (93.4% liked)

doomer

931 readers
57 users here now

What is Doomer? :(

It is a nebulous thing that may include but is not limited to Climate Change posts or Collapse posts.

Include sources when applicable for doomer posts, consider checking out !bloomer@www.hexbear.net once in awhile.

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Time is on the side of the Russians in Ukraine and the Chinese on pretty much anything else when it comes to confronting the US empire.

But ever since the ceasefire in Lebanon and the fall of Assad I can't help but feel that the Palestinian cause is getting worse every day. No one is lifting a finger for them except the Yemenis and it only seems that the Zionist fucks are getting closer to their objectives.

Civil war in "Israel" when? True Promise 3 when (lol)?

It doesn't help that some of the loudest voices cheering for Assad's fall where Palestinians and that sectarism is strong against Shia's...

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml -3 points 2 days ago (13 children)

You are swallowing a narrative

With respect, I am not. My stances on the imperialist project in basically every other sphere (especially the Middle East and Sputh America) are incredibly skeptical and critical.

But what appears to be confusing everyone is I choose to apply those same standards and lenses to everyone

Yes, you actually should understand the context of this war, even if that means that Russian atrocities are also going to be put in context and complicate your feelings about it.

Exactly, thank you. I think the "if the USA is involved its always the invading force" bothers me so much because it wipes away that cognitive dissonance with delusional dogma.

If your position is to sit by the sidelines and condemn any state actor because states are oppressive/expansionist/monstrous then you've maintained a moral high ground that you've eliminated any chance to turn into a project for actually advancing a political goal.

I assume this is a hypothetical "if your position is" and not an accusation, because I totally agree.

I do not sit on the sidelines, Ukraine has a full and complete right to defend itself. (As does Palestine, as does (did) Hong Kong, as does any sovereign nation who is not the aggressors and who's boldest demand is a return to previously agreed upon boundaries from before the invasion.

The Western imperialist bloc must be stopped. That requires the cooperation of everyone in the world that understands the true nature of imperialism to contribute in the struggle against imperialism.

We remarkably agree on the premises here. It's surprising to me we go so opposite to each other.

When I look at the Russian Ologarchs and all the people falling out of windows and that they all have bank accounts in the same offshore places that Western bourgeois were showing up.

If you are open heartedly telling me that Putins Russia is an ally on eliminating inequality and distributing capital back to the producers then I don't get where that is coming from.

When Mao fought against the Japanese imperialists alongside Chiang Kai Shek, he had to make a moral compromise that was necessary to actually achieve the goal, to liberate China. Modern day anti-imperialists are no different.

China and Russia are highly different beasts.

Is it your genuinely held belief that Putin is making the right compromises in the right places to liberate Russia?

Setting aside Russia's moral right to the invasion, let's look at their economy since. It's tanked! Are you really suggesting that the Ukraine war was a strategically sound idea?

[–] turtle@lemm.ee 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (9 children)

I do not sit on the sidelines, Ukraine has a full and complete right to defend itself. (As does Palestine, as does (did) Hong Kong, as does any sovereign nation who is not the aggressors and who’s boldest demand is a return to previously agreed upon boundaries from before the invasion.

Did Russia have a right to defend itself against being completely surrounded by an adversarial military alliance? They had warned the West for years that they would never allow that to happen, but the West kept pushing it despite earlier "promises" not to do so. The West didn't care because they're willing to fight to the last Ukrainian for their own gain. Had Ukraine chosen to be neutral and said "no, thanks" to NATO, they wouldn't have been invaded.

You're not distinguishing between a truly imperialist country that invades other countries completely unprovoked (see US invasion of Iraq for just one recent example) versus a country that invades another purely as a defensive, strategic move (Russia -> Ukraine/Georgia).

Aside from that, saying that Ukraine has a full and complete right to defend itself makes sense only in an ideal world, but not in a real world where it is placed right next door to an 800 pound gorilla. Would Canada or Mexico be completely within their rights to join a full military alliance with Russia and/or China? Absolutely. Would there be a positive outcome for their country and its citizens if they tried? Absolutely not. In a situation like that, neutrality or even outright support for the gorilla next door is the completely rational approach to take.

Edit: minor changes to one sentence in the last paragraph.

[–] WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (8 children)

Did Russia have a right to defend itself against being completely surrounded by an adversarial military alliance?

I'm confused what "completely surrounded" means here? Have you looked at a map of Russia in comparison to NATO countries?

It's barely touched by NATO countries, they're only to the west and completely untouched with Mongolia/Khazakstan to the south and Asia to the east.

But absolutely it did! Assuming hypothetically it was being surrounded it had as much right to join or leave defensive alliances as they do.

Bring back the Warsaw Pact if they want. You just don't invade another country.

And if one of those countries had dared to cross over the Russian border in invasion, it had a right to defend itself from that invasion.

They had warned the West for years that they would never allow that to happen, but the West kept pushing it despite earlier "promises" not to do so. The West didn't care because they're willing to fight to the last Ukrainian for their own gain. Had Ukraine chosen to be neutral and said "no, thanks" to NATO, they wouldn't have been invaded.

Interesting justification.

How many times do I have to warn my neighbor I don't like their new security system before its okay to just take their house?

You're not distinguishing between a truly imperialist country that invades other countries completely unprovoked (see US invasion of Iraq for just one recent example) versus a country that invades another purely as a defensive, strategic move (Russia -> Ukraine/Georgia).

You're right. Invasion is not a defensive move.

Would Canada or Mexico be completely within their rights to join a full military alliance with Russia and/or China? Absolutely.

Agreed.

Would there be a positive outcome for their country and its citizens if they tried? Absolutely not. In a situation like that, neutrality or even outright support for the gorilla next door is the completely rational approach to take.

As a Canadian, I completely disagree. I'd really like some help with the 800 pound gorilla next door.

I support closer ties with China, but not Russia personally.

[–] Horse@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

How many times do I have to warn my neighbor I don’t like their new security system before its okay to just take their house?

in this instance your neighbor's security system is a 40mm cannon aimed at your front door

[–] WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 day ago (2 children)

And your security system is a nuclear fission bomb pointed at the entire planet

[–] Horse@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 1 day ago

we talking about russia still, or every major state in general?

[–] WhatsTheHoldup@lemmy.ml 0 points 1 day ago

And your neighbor is the one who gave you the nuclear fission bomb under the promise you'd never take their house

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)