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this post was submitted on 24 Sep 2024
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@trwnh
I want fedi folks to start thinking about commons instead of getting hung up on stuff that's basically warmed over "the cathedral and the bazaar."
All functional commons involve inclusion and exclusion. They are neither purely closed nor open. They are variously open or closed depending on the combination of who you are and what you want to do.
@MichaelTBacon i think you're using closed/open in a different way from how i'm using it, which for formal logic means either "everything is true unless it's false" or "there are some things i don't know, and they aren't necessarily false, i just don't know"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed-world_assumption
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop In other words, a "protocol" needs to know everything there is to know, and it is undesirable to have unknowns. Contrast with the viewpoint that it's perfectly fine to have unknowns, and in fact, you can expect unknowns by default. You'll never have a complete view of the universe.
@trwnh@mastodon.social
In that regard, I have to say that I think I'm still in a little bit of a grey area. The power of AP is in the fact that it can socialize a wide range of things, and I don't think that world should be closed in advanced.
At the same time, a protocol needs a set of sub-standards at least (lots of old IETF protocols had CAPABILITY commands) that let you figure out which specific closed world you're operating in.
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop i'm rotating in my head the idea of a FEP that defines a conformance profile for a "social networking profile" that basically formalizes what you'd need to implement a "fediverse network", basically as a superset of AS2+AP (because AP is not enough on its own, it says nothing about message shapes or how to interpret specific props in a social network setting)
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop actually my main reservations about it are like
@trwnh@mastodon.social
If I can give unsolicited advice on nebulous question . . . ;)
Those may be totally useless or non-sequitur to your actual concerns. Wouldn't be the first time in this thread alone I misunderstood!
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop right, i'm just wondering how to nudge implementers in the "right" direction on here (story of my life for the past 5 years lol)
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop unfortunately the common response to "can we make things better" is "we need $200k"
@trwnh@mastodon.social
On a vaguely related note, I think a really interesting way to do a proof of concept of this would be to demonstrate its use in a social media game.
The old adage that everything on the internet truly only takes off at first as either games or porn is still somewhat relevant. I think a mastodon-adjacent but very much not mastodon-specific form of social gaming could be really fun, demonstrate some ideas, and bring a different set of people to the fedi.
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop this has the potential to be like when people kept getting farmville activities in their facebook feeds 😭
@trwnh@mastodon.social I mean hopefully we're better than that! I don't think the sum total of social gaming should be people posting their wordle scores.
There was a time when a big part of the appeal of Facebook was Words with Friends and other doofy little games that lived in the platform. FB decided it could print money other ways but those were strong early draws to the platform.
A fedi version of chess or go or mancala that used AP for its moves and allowed others to follow along would be cool.