I'm afraid you are misinformed. Stalin and Hitler were Nazi mass murderers and best buddies. Bandera, while not an angel, was imprisoned by Hitler and murdered by Stalin.

"Bandera was a nazi" was soviet and now ruzzian line, this statement is neither true nor false, but repeating it helps spreading ruzzian propaganda.

[–] egrets@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)

Eh? The OUN, under Bandera's leadership, repeatedly and actively sought to alliance Nazi Germany during WWII. They formed militias with the express intent of enacting pogroms against Jewish citizens. Their political agenda was absolutely a fascist one. Bandera collaborated with the Nazis directly near the end of the war to fight the Soviets (though he was between a rock and a hard place here, I admit).

[–] Tuuktuuk@mastodontti.fi 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago) (1 children)

@egrets @doo

What are your opinions on C.G.E. Mannerheim and Finland? The parallels to S. Bandera and Ukraine are very interesting!

[–] doo@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

Bro. I have Ukrainian roots and I'm very confused about the Ukrainian stuff :)

All I know about Finland is that Soviets attacked it and, essentially, lost, so I guess Finland didn't have much choice - it was the known evil of the Stalin and the who-knows-what with the Germans that weren't even their neighbours.

I'm sure there were actual Nazis both in Finland and Ukraine, but I don't see how Finland could have stayed independent and neutral in that situation.

But again, I know way too little about those parts.

[–] doo@sh.itjust.works 0 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

so first things first. pogroms and volyn were terrible and seems like Ukraine is working through that.

the point i'm making here is that the binary "worked with nazis" leads nowhere, and we have to bring things into the historical perspective.

today we have the luxury of retrospective and know what fascism is and its dangers. which, ironically, doesn't seem to stop us from sliding into it.

things were very different and slightly less binary in 1941. after all, the German American Bund (aka First US Nazi party) was dismantled only in December 1941. to make matters worse, germany, france and poland were all researching on the "re-settling" of jews to madagascar: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

what makes a difference for me is that while the main nazis (germans, italians, japanese and soviets) were all about "we are better, let's enslave the neighbor monkeys", ukrainian nationalists in that time were about fighting against occupation. polish, soviet, nazi and then again soviet. in that order.

they lost, and as usual with history, it's written by the winners but the fact that (the modern nazi) ruzzia appears to have inherited fear of bandera from the (fairly nazi) soviet union, tells me that it's worth looking at him not only from the ruzzian perspective.

[–] egrets@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

I think that's all valid and well-thought-through, and I perhaps misinterpreted your original message. It seemed to me you were saying that because he was imprisoned for several years by Nazi Germany, he was de facto not a fascist, which would be a very dubious claim.

[–] doo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 weeks ago

Nah, my original message was a quick braindump full of shortcuts. I'm glad you gave me the opportunity to formulate it orderly.

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