this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2026
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I don't like spending this much time arguing against campism but they just keep talking at me.

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[–] Psythik@lemmy.world 80 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (24 children)

Can't wait for the tankies to show up and once again try to defend bootlicking.

[–] Pratai@piefed.ca 20 points 6 days ago

It’s what they do.

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[–] Yeller_king@reddthat.com 29 points 5 days ago (34 children)

If you value any economic system above democracy, you'll end up being authoritarian no matter what your preferred system is.

[–] balderdash9@lemmy.zip 9 points 4 days ago (2 children)

You call this a democracy? The entire system is built to extract wealth from the working class

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[–] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 31 points 5 days ago (3 children)

For tankies, communism must be authoritarian, and the worst tankies will just prefer even actual fascism to "childish naivety of democracy". Technically tankies are just the leftist version of your right-wing grandpa trying to convince you to finally grow out of leftism, except they're overtly obsessed with "On authority" by Friedrich Engels.

[–] Equinox1289@sh.itjust.works 22 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I hate being told I'm not socialist for wanting coöperative ownership and a coöp commonwealth economy, but that they are real the "real" socialists when they just want state owned corporations.

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[–] leftzero@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

the leftist version

Are they leftists, though? They call themselves leftists, sure, but if it walks like a duck...

[–] pheelicks@lemmy.zip 11 points 5 days ago (2 children)

Yeah. I dont know exactly what I would call them but the German "far"-"left" splinter party BSW just supported the actually far-right party AFD in voting for the first far-right state governor since the Nazi era... that's not exactly behavior that anybody would seriously consider left.

[–] GripenGal@sh.itjust.works 8 points 5 days ago

Red fascists

[–] wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz 5 points 4 days ago

Probably cause they both get their funding from moscow and don't care about anything other than destroying western society, so they voted for the disrupter even though he's a fascist. Typical tankie behavior.

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[–] psycholocomotor@lemmy.world 38 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (18 children)

Idk what communist movement you think is going to emerge pristine out of this horrific, traumatizing, wasteland of human suffering without being wrong in really terrible ways.

A socialist or anti-imperialist movement does not have to be morally correct for me to back them. Class struggle does not have to be led by good people to succeed, they don't have to have a correct interpretation of Marxism or be Marxist at all, they don't have to not have corruption, and they will almost always carry reactionary baggage. In a lot of situations (almost universally) it's not realistic or possible at all for a resistance to capitalist exploitation, colonialism or imperialism to exist without all of those problems and more, but doesn't mean it shouldn't exist. If they're opposing capitalism, even if they're doing it badly, they deserve support.

Also, yes, MLs shouldn't do apologia for the things the USSR did or other socialisms did, they should state the truth clearly without discomfort. I'm kinda disillusioned with ML spaces on the internet, actually, because they really suck. It's like a game to some people; a game about being right and not caring about fucking anything. It puts me off when I see like uncritical support of past socialisms as if they were perfect, which is impossible, and you'll always end up being disappointed, which is the one of the points of this whole message, but it only serves to make them look like atrocity-denying historical revisionists to other people. Like the Soviets really did deport Tatars in trains, and really didn't work to correct the colonialist past they inherited from the Russian Empire.

However, the dissolution of the USSR and the throwing of its people to the wolves of finance capital was a humanitarian catastrophe for Eastern Europe and created a situation that even now is actually sickening to think about, and I don't know at all how or when things will recover and get better for people there. It put into motion the fucking tragedy that is happening now in Ukraine plus all of the unseen suffering in the poor regions of what was the Eastern Bloc. The ex-Soviet countries are are perfect example of what losing looks like.

Like I'm sure there are lurid, real crimes that Hamas, or Iran, or Ansar Allah committed, but I hope to god they don't lose, because they're fighting against the IDF and the American military and all of the bad things that the resistance has done cannot hold a candle to what the US and Israel have done. That's how I feel about resistance to capital.

Like you've gotta understand historical materialism and a lot more than just that, you have to keep trying to understand things for years to be good communist. I'm not a good communist. If you approach politics with the goal of having the correct hot takes, you'll never want to understand anything. Just stop making hot takes, and look at the world.

[–] Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

As a baby leftist, I don't want to fall into the traps of others when it comes to heralding the goods of past socialist experiments without criticizing the ills as well.

Nothing is perfect, as you say, and it a materialist socialists' life long project to see the world clearly for all the material conditions that exist, and have existed up until this point. Idealist socialists and idealist communists will capsize their entire movement, and endlessly make things about purity tests.

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[–] btsax@reddthat.com 10 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Tankies: ackshually, the term "authoritarian" is not narrowly defined and therefore has no meaning! Checkmate libs1

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