this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2026
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https://sfba.social/@drahardja/117344931893000589

the other day a tanky said a sentence constructed like that to me too, while literally arguing for me to join his authoritarian group

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[–] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 6 points 17 hours ago

Don't make Perfect the enemy of Progress.

[–] DamoclesDurden@sh.itjust.works 3 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Sorry, can’t hear you over your failure to solve the entire problem. /s

[–] musubibreakfast@lemmy.world 2 points 15 hours ago

Well, your negative comment made me spiral and transformed me into a speed bump on the road to progress. /s

[–] niva@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

I do things that make no difference globally because I don't want to take part in the bad things.

I did not vote for the government that is ruling my country. My single vote did not make any difference, but it makes me feel better that I did not vote for this government.

I travel by train instead of a plane and I ride a bike instead of driving a car because I don't want to be part of the club of high CO2 emission citizen.

Doing that does not matter globally, but I feel better about myself that way. I don't tell other people what to do or to follow my example, but I think some people around me do notice and maybe it does get them thinking?

But I have no illusions, most people are busy enough and do what is most convenient every time. I am the only adult in my circle that does not own a car. But I feel powerless beyond my personal life to change anything.

I know it is not good enough, but I don't know how to change other people.

I did try and sometimes I still do try, but to no effect besides annoying people. 🤷

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Hiding behind vague hypotheticals because you voted for a union busting genocider with a staff full of Epstein patrons

[–] Zensate@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Remember, that is exactly what an exploiter will say to you. They'll always try to place the blame on the individual for the damage they're doing collectively. Same with the BP Oil campaign when they invented the "carbon footprint of the individual" while being one of the worst polluters in the world.

If you look at real, concrete, systemic changes in the world, the times where it has happened because of "optimism" is close to zero.

Remember that the exploiters will always demand that people use the proper channels, because they own those channels, and can make sure nothing ever gets through.

There are only two ways to deal with exploiters. You can try and use your voice a few times, and if that doesn't work, you start using your hands.

[–] wpb@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

"This is not a perfect solution, and therefore it is not a solution" is called the nirvana fallacy, and is poor reasoning. Somehow people are really susceptible to it.

The argument "this solution only partially solves the problem, and further entrenches us into a system that makes the problem this solution aims to solve much, much worse in the long run, and as such the benefits do not outweight the costs" is a different argument, but it is often mistaken for the former argument because people are incapable of long term thinking.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago* (last edited 17 hours ago)

Interesting, now I know that type of argument has a name. I think many rationalizations are a veneer for laziness. Taking the stance that doing something is useless means you don't have to feel guilty about not doing it. Likewise, when there's a widespread delusion that simple, ineffective actions make us heroes, people will do those actions and nothing else, because giving themselves a gold star is all they really want. It's important not to confuse spending hours in social media circlejerks with "spreading awareness".

[–] Cyanova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

I have been told this my whole life, how our silly little actions didn't mean anything because they were too small or fringe or whatever.

The difference is I can look back across the decades and see a lot of people who I have helped, and who have helped me in turn, things have been directly made better as a result (well, at least some of the time). Meanwhile, their "more realistic" approach centred on voting has seen periods of glacial progress and rapid retreat, leaving them further back than ever before in my lifetime.

[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Individual actions rarely cause big changes, but they help individuals all the time. Nothing wrong with that.

[–] Cyanova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

For the sake of clarity, I meant actions in the sense of direct action; typically some sort of anarchism flavoured so prefiguration was often at least kept in mind. Nothing has ever snowballed of course, although some actions have spawned some lovely little related communities that are thriving too (and others that since ran out of steam, true); I'll always choose small victories over chasing the best loss as electoralism endlessly expounds. But I don't at all disagree with the sentiment!

[–] Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 day ago

I have been told this my whole life, how our silly little actions didn't mean anything because they were too small or fringe or whatever.

Same. Ive never believed it.

Be a helper.

[–] TheDannysaur@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

I feel like this is type of thinking is a cope for people who don't want to actually do anything but maintain what they think is the moral high ground.

They realize that if they admit that you doing something is positive, then they'll be forced to confront why they aren't doing it.

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Look man, you’re only saving 50% of the children from starvation, so obviously your idea is bad and we should continue letting 100% of the children die until someone comes up with the perfect solution.

[–] InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

This is a very serious take around Lemmy tho

[–] Zink@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

I suggest we start calling this The Musk Argument.

As in, I won't spend an inconsequential fraction of my money to solve world hunger -- after I literally challenged you for a proposal to do so -- because I don't think you will be 100% successful.

Instead, I think I will take public actions to kill untold numbers of poor people around the world while I continue my quest to be the first smart boy with one million million dollars.

[–] Avicenna@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Even though I agree on parts of it, don't forget that Trump has upended the whole system and decades of progression in six months. So next time democrats tell you that "change takes time and needs patience" you should also show them the middle finger. Especially so if they say this in relation to changing back things Trump has done.

[–] Soleos@lemmy.world 4 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

You have to take into context the type of change that's being discussed. Destroying things takes less time than building things.

[–] Avicenna@programming.dev 1 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Agreed but if they say the same things about bringing back the systems that Trump has abolished, I would be more suspicious of them trying to benefit from those changes while pretending that their interests are aligned with their constituents. We have seen how fast progressive democrats can move when they want, like Mamdani. So that makes me believe that in many cases previous "change takes time" were delaying strategies.

[–] Soleos@lemmy.world 1 points 57 minutes ago

Certainly that's a factor and it's good to scrutinize.

Perfection being the enemy of good (enough).

[–] DudleyMason@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 day ago (7 children)

This is only valid as long as your partial/incomplete solution doesn't encourage people who would otherwise keep working on solving the whole problem to decide that since there's a solution they can just knock off for brunch and leave you to it.

Partial solutions to a polluted creek that's choked with litter? Yes please, then we can see what comes next

Placebo solutions that make people who've made no difference feel like they've done their part to fight fascism and can go back to brunch? Gtfo with that shit.

Hint: if the "problem" is a societal one, nothing you see or hear suggested by anyone who has advertisers is going to actually solve anything, and is likely to work against anyone trying an actual solution.

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[–] chunes@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Sometimes layering bandaid improvements is ultimately worse than solving the problem correctly.

[–] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Sometimes. Not often.

What is often the case is that solving the problem correctly is not an option.

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[–] Sylence@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Things have gotten worse over my lifetime in small, almost imperceptible ways, which have all accumulated into the humungous shit sandwich we find ourselves consuming daily. The only way things will get better is in the same small, incremental way. Should we fight for more, faster, better? Absolutely! Should we let that get in the way of small wins? Hell no. It's not sexy, it feels like trudging through mud every day and requires a level of faith to believe that the small contributions each of us make will matter in the long term. But it is the only way given the realities of the world we live in. Everything else is apathy or accelerationism.

[–] derpgon@programming.dev 67 points 2 days ago (8 children)

Perfect is the enemy of good (or good enough).

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[–] OctopusNemeses@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago

It's a demoralization propaganda tactic to effectively blunt any issue. People have internalized the idea that they can do nothing on an individual level. Like habits that form out of persistent actions, people have been demoralized into giving up completely. It's some sort of ego trap. Where the presumption is that an individual is supposed Superman saving the world, but of course they aren't. Nobody is. So why bother at all. That's not the point. It's about the the population as a whole determining the norm. Everyone is convinced it's pointless and hopeless. That sets the tone. The issue is dead in the water. Any issue can be killed this way. It's extremely effective. People fall for it every time.

That's where climate change is right now. That's where wealth inequality is right now. People have listened to social media. They've internalized the quote repetitions. The demoralization mantras they saw on social media.

Your adversaries can handle words on social media. It's meaningless to them. It has no effect on their daily lifestyle or their bank accounts. Throwing words into the cloud. Somebody else's computer. Those servers are owned by your very adversaries. You're throwing your comments into a meaningless suggestion box. In all likelihood the quote repetitions were seeded by them.

Everyone is convinced that "the rich" consist of a few billionaires named Musk, Bezos, or Zuckerberg. This blinds people from seeing local issues. Like crony politicians or localized inequality issues. Ones where they actually have more of a voice. One where they can actually effect change.

There's no more blatant manifestation than when reddit (happens on lemmy too) bleeds their hearts over those posts about some rich asshole. Those carbon copy posts about how hard it is to be making techbro level money while "struggling" to live in the most wealthy cities in the world. Who gives a shit. Why does everyone have sympathy for those rich people at all. Everyone crazy? These people are part of the problem. They are the rich too. They are the source of issues that affect you locally. The guillotines are for them as much as Musk, Bezos or Zuckerberg. They're out of touch rich people who have dragged you all into their reality where they're victims too. How convenient for them to have a few billionaire scapegoats that are untouchable. Whereas the average working class person can actually effect change on a local level.

People have given up on climate change because they're convinced the one or two people must stop flying private jets then the problem will be solved. It's quote repetitions. Fed to them from social media. "If those jerks can fly private jets, then why can't I consume as much as I want myself. I'll use all the plastic bags and straws that I want." It's not about the bags or the straws. It's about the collective demoralization. The propaganda is so effective.

[–] Thorry@feddit.org 48 points 2 days ago (6 children)

Yeah I've had this kind of discussions with right wing folk. We were discussing socialist policies, which I was in favor of and they were against. They were pointing out there were people abusing current socialist policies and getting a free handout, so all of those policies should be cut to prevent the freeloaders from freeloading. I argued that any kind of policy, no matter what the policy is, is going to be abused by a small fraction of the population. It's not possible to create something without loopholes and people exploiting them. We should try to prevent it in the design, but in the end we should accept that's going to happen and instead focus on if the policy is also actually helping the people it was designed for.

Nothing is perfect, problems won't be fully solved and / or new problems will be created. That isn't failure, it's life.

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[–] kibiz0r@midwest.social 30 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

There’s like two kinds of proposals, and whichever kind you make you get criticized. You make a big proposal, people say “Well yeah but how does that work on the ground?” You make an on-the-ground proposal, and people say “Well how does that scale to the whole thing?” Alright fine, then let’s just die!

Douglas Rushkoff at Bretton Woods 75

[–] Paradachshund@lemmy.today 53 points 2 days ago (6 children)

I see way too much of this on the internet, here on Lemmy included. Thanks for posting this. I have this thought a lot but haven't see this good of a way to put it before.

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