Canada and the EU, how we feeling? : worldnews

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 52 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

this basically sums it up

[–] SpaceDogs@lemmygrad.ml 33 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Im all for pivoting away from the US but it’s a shame that basically the only alternative partners Canadians think about are the EU and other global north countries. We were actually talking about other trade partners to replace the US in my polisci class last week (will make a post about it) and the only alts were EU and tentatively China.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 34 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

It's obvious that China is the country we should really be creating ties with because it's the only credible alternative power. Unfortunately, the amount of brainwashing that's been done for decades ensures that we're going to have tepid relations at best.

I really think Brian Berletic is correct when he says the whole 'break up' is just a circus, and what's really happening is burden sharing. Europe and Canada are gonna get saddled with the war in Ukraine. We've already committed to sending 90bln there, and we're going to be making drones for the war. It should be obvious to anybody with even a minimally functioning brain that none of that is in Canada's interest, and that we're going to be forced into austerity along with the Europeans. We're still entirely dependent on the trade with the US, our military is married with them at the hip, and there's not a shred of sovereignty left here.

The whole theatre about the US and Canada having a split is very effective at convincing the public to rally behind Carney, and most people have no clue regarding the economic situation in the EU, and don't understand that we're going to be on the hook for funding the war now. Carney sold the myth that we're creating some middle power alliance, which is absurd beyond belief.

My hope is that Russia wins in Ukraine and the EU implodes before any of this can be put into action, because otherwise we're in for some really dark times here.

[–] Cletus@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Were fucked either way. Either "we" choose to not leave the titanic...or we get shot trying to.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QPzMKRwp7Sk&pp=

If Canada ever tries to meaningfully distance itself from its relationship to the US there will be war or at the very least a coup. Probably the ladder, a "coup" Maduro style. (Its my belief that the Maduro thing was largely theatre, the government sold out under threat of war. Possibly including Maduro). I can imagine "CIA and CSIS partner to take out Chinese agent Canadian PM". I don't see how a grim future can be avoided in the next decade(s). Blowback I suppose.

Were too stupid to realize its in our own self interest that Ukraine capitulates with Russia. The one time being self interested is a net good people "choose" to follow some "morals". For fucks sake just side with the "" imperialist"" like we do every other time.

"It is a very good idea to leave a sinking ship" - Hanoi Hannah https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w3VeKnW9cNo&pp=

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yeah, the US wouldn't allow Canada to become its Ukraine obviously. Also, don't forget that Canada imported a fuck ton of nazis from Ukraine after the war to break up the labour movement. And that's why there is a massive support for Ukraine here now. You have nazi grandkids like Freeland running around at the highest levels of our politics.

[–] Cletus@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Ya, I mean Canada imported many Ukrainians to colonize the prairies because the climate is similar. Disenfranchised Ukrainian diaspora are pretty loyal to Canada and vice versa. Part of my family is "Georgian" Doukhobors, really Ukrainians.

They were kicked out of Tsarist Russia because they were pacifists who refused to pay taxes or join the military. First they got sent to Georgia. Later Canada was happy to get them to settle in the prairie and afforded them freedom to exercise their religious practices for some time...though Canada backtracked of course lol. Their practices were quiet interesting, communal living ect.

The history of Canada using Ukrainians as a tool to strengthen the state is long.

So its really no surprise. Smh

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Oh I'm talking about more recent stuff after WW2 like this.

One way of getting into postwar Canada "was by showing the SS tattoo," Canadian historian Irving Abella told "60 Minutes" interviewer Mike Wallace. "This proved that you were an anti-Communist."

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I found YouTube links in your comment. Here are links to the same videos on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

Link 1:

Link 2:

[+] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml -24 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Honestly, even as a supporter of China I think a strong EU could be a good thing in the pursuit of a multipolar world.

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 49 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Completely disagree. The EU is a cancerous neoliberal project that's actively trying to start WW3 right now. The sooner that atrocity collapses economically, the better it is for the rest of the world.

[–] cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 2 weeks ago

💯

[–] pyromaiden@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

a "strong" EU will just end up being another USA

there world doesn't deserve that

[–] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I made this post when I was drunk and I think I had a point but I don't really remember what it was

[–] demeritum@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

Probably about fracturing the US Empire with a strong Europe.

[–] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Okay I'm drunk again. My point was that it's in the best interest of China to maintain a balanced world economy. Neither we nor China is pursuing a future where China takes over from the U.S. as world hegemon - and, in fact, I believe that a lack of strong competitors would put stress on China's political system and ultimately incentivize them towards Imperialist policy. This is why China does not pursue Hegemony, but instead Multipolarity.

The EU as it exists is a reactionary force and is bad for Europeans, yes, but insofar as it serves as a counterweight to U.S. interests in the West and as a willing trade and diplomatic partner to China, a strong Europe is a net benefit to the world as a whole.

In other words, the point of my post was that it is better for Western interests to be split between the U.S. and EU rather than just being consolidated under the U.S. and it's international organizations (such as NATO).

[–] Cletus@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

Hilarious thread. China really be doing its best to heard cats. Hopefully it goes well. But I doubt it.

Liberals "Its a great mystery why China prevented an oil crisis by decreasing imports"

Xi if you're reading this im trying to signal to you that I can hopefully be part of the the expedited re educations programs.

Hopefully I'm not encouraging a bender but I fear I am.

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

a lack of strong competitors would put stress on China’s political system and ultimately incentivize them towards Imperialist policy

I would consider (re-?) studying the ML conception of how imperialism comes to be.

For example, if any mechanisms of the welfare state in Europe, example universal health care such as NHS in the UK, are not sufficient pressures* to turn those capitalist countries away from imperialism, should we then reconsider that capital mechanisms within a socialist state isn't runaway train to imperialism with or without competition from other capitalist countries? Capitalist countries are not the check on imperialism for other countries socialist or not; they are only a check on at most who gets the last word on where the most concentration of capital ends up in and where underdevelopment is maxmised as an expense to the global south.

(Eg WWII did not stop German - as part of a Western Hegemon - imperialism on the global stage, it only confirmed its shift of centre to the US)

In fact capitalist pressure is the opposite, it is to promote capitalism including in China (though failing).

Maybe consider studying the autodynamism aspect of dialectical materialism; for me personally Thinking In Systems by Meadows helped a great deal.

*they're not pressures against imperialism at all (1) in practice, unfortunately, when you reduce western workers' precarity as a whole their solidarity collectively with the global south proleteriat goes away with it (2) welfare state means those aspects the welfare state is targeting is somewhat removed from markets for capital to exploit, so capital chases investment in markets outside the border (3) that welfare state is being subsidised through the superexploitation of the global south via the unequal exchange.

Hope that helped.

[–] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think what I meant was more that, if China has a stronger trade relationship with Canada, it would incentivize China to support Canada and become complicit in its Imperialist policies.

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

There isn't a clean line. The soviet union tried isolation; it failed. The reform in China was to use capital mechanisms under a DOTP but with the understanding with the benefit of de-isolation you will be trading with those complicit in ongoing mass murder. That lack of "purity" is what separates survival from idealist "win". China is already "complicit" from the perspective of paper-socialists who never had a successful revolution in their own lands. Losurdo's take on Western Marxism is well worth a read.

[–] Drewfro66@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'll have to do some thinking on this. Thanks for taking the time to respond constructively!

[–] darkernations@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

🫡 (no worries; we are all learning, myself included)

[–] GreatSquare@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 weeks ago

The EU as it exists is a reactionary force and is bad for Europeans, yes, but insofar as it serves as a counterweight to U.S. interests in the West and as a willing trade and diplomatic partner to China, a strong Europe is a net benefit to the world as a whole.

Is it though? (Pressing X to Doubt)

It's no counterweight to the US. And it's not a willing trade and diplomatic partner to China.

[–] Lenins_Dumbbell@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 weeks ago

Disagree big time.

I think people forget that EU is nothing but the US from a different Era.

The crimes EU countries have committed combined probably dwarf the US.

For some reason, they gloss over that fact. Honestly, as a third worlder, I look forward to the EU collapsing and imploding just as much as I look forward to the US' demise.

And I hope the people suffer a great deal at least for a few decades, so it's drilled into their head what their institutions were doing to the third world while they were at brunch.

[–] NothingButBits@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Get ready for austerity!

[–] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 weeks ago

indeed

[–] ksynwa@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Maybe Europeans think everything is Eurovision

[–] starkillerfish@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

eurovisionism is now the official ideology of the EU

[–] SocialistVibes01@lemmy.ml 9 points 2 weeks ago

Mutual destruction, please?

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