Comradeship // Freechat

The easiest answer here is that socialism is not communism. Socialism is often described as a transitory state to communism -- a state controlled by the workers, operating in their interests, and working towards a classless, stateless, moneyless society. You can be a billionaire in China, but billionaires can't grab control of the government.

Lmao. Shame to see this take on Lemmygrad of all places.

If this is a genuine good faith opinion you hold, I honestly don't intend to argue it with you. Countless articles, essays, debates, and comments have been written about this exact thing, so much so I don't intend to repeat the same point ad nauseum. You can search up those writings for that and read them yourself.

I'll save my breath, and let China's future on the world stage do the talking.

东方红。

Vietnam has a stock market. So does Laos.

Got an issue with living in China? Their standards of living are quite high.

We shouldn't get hung up on Marxist orthodoxy. China IS the single best hope for communism in the world right now, and we should support that effort. Not blindly of course. But fundamentally, capital does not hold power in China, China is making strides every day towards communism, and the Chinese system is starting to spread to the global South, placing several countries on a viable path of liberation and sovereignty.

China was spared the fate of the USSR, because they realized that being under constant siege by most of the world was not a good strategy. They regressed somewhat, but the aim was to make themselves indispensable to the world economy, and thus dethrone the US from its role as economic hegemon. We see today that this has succeeded. And now (for the past 10 years) China is progressively returning back to what it had before it made these pro-capital changes. And this is only possible because China has never allowed the capitalist class it has fostered to take over the government.

As Marxists, our foremost principle when analyzing AES is to remember that the way socialism/communism are implemented depends on the material conditions of the country in question. There is a material reason for China allowing capitalist elements in its economy as I stated above.

I used to think like you once upon a time, until I started reading news on what is actually happening in China. I would suggest you do the same.

Do you know how embarassing it is to read you people calling China not socialist because of literal non-issues? Instead of asking: "What power has capital in the PRC?" you go with "stock exchanges = no socialism". How about your study the basics before you declare anyone anything?

Please read this, there are many sources here: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/12489174/8563515

Ask yourself (or research) what would it take for a country to remain socialist and still have a stock market.

(That's not tongue-in-cheek. It is the counter-side to why a country like Norway is not socialist despite having one of the better welfare systems outside of dictatorships of the proleteriat.)

Reading resources (to begin with):

A: - Why the World Needs China by Kyle Ferrana (easier to read)

B: - Losurdo (denser):

1. https://redsails.org/losurdo-on-china/
2. An educational trip to China, Reflections of a Philosopher
3. by Roland Boer - Domenico Losurdo in China: An Insight into the State of Marxist Education and the CPC

TLDR: If dialectical materialism is a thing (it is), we have to consider in the transition from capitalism to communism via socialism what mechanisms of capital will be in the socialist state.

If you could only read one thing then I would recommend Ferrana's book. If you wanted a wider-scope theory-dense analysis than the above list then I would recommend Losurdo's work on Western Marxism.

Hope that helps.

Read theory bruh ffs. Start with Deng's essays on opening of China's markets.

And once you've read theory, you'll find that China is in social movement. The proletarian revolution created a proletarian state. That state dominates the private market to ensure capitalist interests are subordinated to the interests of the workers' state.

USSR had the NEP for the same reason. You can't press a button and become socialist. Not how it works.

China has to balance building socialism, governing 1.4bn people, improving their material conditions, be the most rational actor in international politics, AND CONSTANTLY DEFEND AGAINST IMPERIALIST RHETORIC AND AGGRESSION.

during the new economic policy (NEP), roughly 1921-1928, the rsfsr had markets, money, private trade, and some forms of commercial speculation. it had commodity exchanges, where goods such as grain and industrial products were traded, and the government controlled foreign-exchange and currency dealings.

Big Spoon Theory