looking at twitter is a mistake in the first place π
this post was submitted on 10 Sep 2026
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It's crazy that this argument about how having a trans girl on a girls sports team is being flipped around like "it doesn't matter if we ban it it affects almost nobody" okay, then why the fuck should it be banned??
Listen idk what the right thing to do about young people wanting reassignment surgery, is this an actual issue? I know that parents can have their sons circumcised while they are babies which doesn't seem too far removed, except in the case of a young person choosing sexual reassignment surgery the young person is actually involved in a decision about their own body. People cry about permanent disfigurement (or whatever shock-inducing language can be deployed to stop gender reassignment surgery) where it concerns this one issue, meanwhile many many more children get ground up in farm machinery every year and nobody gives a wet shit about about that.
So like, I think the first step is making sure the young person is safe, supported, and receiving gender affirming care. I think ultimately the decision is up to the individual, their medical/mental health support team, and their family to the extent that they are not coercive or manipulative. Call me a libertarian or whatever but the moment judges and lawyers and politicians get involved in private medical/reproductive health decisions, I tend to side with the desires of the individual. I have enough experience with young people to trust them with decisions about their own life more than I trust adults with decisions about the lives of young people in the abstract.
Don't pretend there's like any logic or good intentions. This is classic capitulation to right wing framing. Like I said, idk what the answer is, only that we aren't gonna find the right answers by leaving it up to bloodthirsty, power hungry, gore soaked psychopath pedophiles to decide what is right for young people.
Wait. Talarico? The guy who lied about inventing the "oof" sound effect used in Roblox?
His mother is very proud.
They aren't making some kind of bargain, like they aren't even getting anything in return. They are just too happy to throw trans people under the bus.
Truke.
Like let's entertain the idea we and liberals are on the same side. Obama handed Republicans a supreme court justice on a silver platter. Guess what? We never got our thank you present from the GOP. Kamala Harris kissed the rings of the GOP for culture war shit and guess what? She was told she's STILL far too left-wing.
Liberals are now demanding that trans people be sold out
The word "now" is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Liberals have been selling out trans people for a loooooong time.
I am so fucking jonklermaxxed by liberals I can't believe these people are real I hate how "rationally compassionate" the average hitlerite liberal is please for the love of God step on a landmine please I hate them everyone wants us to die 
"Sharia law isn't actually being implemented as part of America's legal system, so progressives lose nothing by supporting Republicans in outlawing it" 
(I know these are somewhat different issues in how we would evaluate them if the stated goal of the laws was more relevant, i.e. we shouldn't have religious law, but in both cases it is demonstrably Republicans creating a wildly overrepresented or invented situation as a pretext for a ban whose real purpose is to be a wedge and a legal "in" for more widespread discrimination, and also red meat I guess)
I would simply point out that transphobia is a tool to divert working class anger away from the rich and to leave workers confused and disorganized.
Liberals when you point out that any political issue they claim to care about is actually class conflict and the Dems sold them out:
You win elections by persuading people who don't already agree with you
Who said anything about winning elections? 
Also this whole string wreaks of "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make" 
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Who said anything about winning elections?
We should seek to win elections*, but on the basis of a platform rather than OOP's "anyone blue no matter how bad their actual policy is" nonsense.
*even if it won't establish socialism itself it is still helpful, plus there are post-revolution elections . . .
It's always the exact same argument with these people and none of us should care except to ridicule them:
"It would be nice if the people in charge weren't giant pieces of shit, that's for sure. But since one side is clearly made entirey of giant pieces of shit, we cannot allow a shit gap and must act exactly like them!"
You win elections by persuading people who don't already agree with you. You make voters feel safe voting for you
Well you're failing to do that. I don't feel safe voting for you and you are not persuading me.
But for some unknown reason the only ones who need gentle coaxing and careful persuasion are the chuds. Don't bother persuading anyone else just yell at em.
How about we try yelling at the chuds this time and gently persuading the leftists...
Liberals could never
I think in the liberal worldview leftists fall under the umbrella of people who are already supposed to agree with liberals. We're supposed to fall in line and vote for democrats by default. It's why they blame leftists every time their candidate loses. We're apparently betraying them somehow.
I mean ya definitely they think that but they're wrong. And of course we've told them they're wrong as in we've said (for instance "onionperson" in the above tweets indicates this) we don't agree with you. But yet they refuse to try to convince leftist who explicitly don't agree with them and instead try to convince chuds who also explicitly don't agree with them.
Of course we know why they do this and it's because generally they don't actually disagree all that much with the chuds and also, as you state, they feel owed the lefts support. They insist it's because they don't disagree all that much with the leftists so what's there to convince. But when we tell them actually no we don't agree they get so fuckin mad.
I'm just pointing out with my original comment that it is illogical. Of course that won't convince any lib...
But it's still satisfying for me to shake my head and go "haha but your logic breaks down under my vast intellect" because I'm a simple girl who wishes people would like think about what they're saying for ~100ms.
One of the basic points in your statement is that the action that I and my associates have taken in Birmingham is untimely. Some have asked: "Why didn't you give the new city administration time to act?" The only answer that I can give to this query is that the new Birmingham administration must be prodded about as much as the outgoing one, before it will act. We are sadly mistaken if we feel that the election of Albert Boutwell as mayor will bring the millennium to Birmingham. While Mr. Boutwell is a much more gentle person than Mr. Connor, they are both segregationists, dedicated to maintenance of the status quo. I have hope that Mr. Boutwell will be reasonable enough to see the futility of massive resistance to desegregation. But he will not see this without pressure from devotees of civil rights. My friends, I must say to you that we have not made a single gain in civil rights without determined legal and nonviolent pressure. Lamentably, it is an historical fact that privileged groups seldom give up their privileges voluntarily. Individuals may see the moral light and voluntarily give up their unjust posture; but, as Reinhold Niebuhr has reminded us, groups tend to be more immoral than individuals.
We know through painful experience that freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed. Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was "well timed" in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word "Wait!" It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This "Wait" has almost always meant "Never." We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that "justice too long delayed is justice denied."
Cis supremacists should be treated exactly the same as white supremacists
You win elections by persuading people who don't already agree with you. You make voters feel safe voting for you
Liberals truly believe politics is about making appeals to conservatives. They believe conservatives are the background radiation of the universe and there's an infinite amount of it to be harassed and wrangled. They believe conservatives simply win by default and that liberals have to trick the conservative base into voting for liberals.
dang, it's almost like the democrats aren't allies and aren't progressive in policy or belief
sAFeTy aNd F
iRnEsS
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO CONCEDE TO THE FASCIST FRAMING OF THE ISSUE YOU FUCKING NINCOMPOOP
if it endangers safety or fairness.
So since nobody has ever demonstrated that trans participation in sports endangers either of those things, you support it? Of course not, if he supported it he'd say so.
The Dem capitulation on trans issues in order to chase votes is also a self fulfilling prophecy. Leaders need to LEAD, not do what the polls tell them to. If Americans are overwhelmingly misinformed on trans women in sports then the fact that the opposition party offers no defense of trans women in sports isn't going to help.
Cis people STFU about things you don't understand challenge, difficulty: impossible.
It is NEVER just about sports. If you concede the sports issue, the fascists have a lever to attack all trans rights. Against all available evidence and against all reason, you have conceded the Republican talking point that a single-digit number of trans women that perform poorly to ok-ish in competition with cis women are a "fairness and safety issue". From that, it directly follows that you have conceded the Republican talking points that trans women should actually be treated as men, that we pose the same threat that men do and that differences between sexes that are either purely imaginary or highly mutable are essential, unchangeable characteristics and that "men" in this bio-essentialist, anti-science worldview are inherently superior.
If you buy into their "no men in women's sports" framing, you swallow the fascist bait hook, line and sinker. You have already agreed to their ideology on gender, you have already proven that you will never have the guts to oppose anything of it, as if letting them take Roe v Wade from the people would not have already proven it.
That's the funny thing right? I'm not going to say it would be moral to say "ok no trans ppl in sports but every other trans issue we win on" - I think total victory is the best strategy - but that would at least be something without an obvious answer. Would it worth sacrificing the very few trans kids who want to play sports for the broader community? It's not a comfortable question (and my voice wouldn't matter in it) but there's a real question there if every other trans issue was accepted, then maybe it's worth the retreat on sports.
BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT IS ON OFFER. There's no exchange for the trans sports issue. It's not like there's a compromise where right wing freaks lay off social transitioning in return or quit screaming about minors transitioning in general. What pisses me off so much is capitulation on the sports issue wins liberals nothing. It doesn't actually protect people, it really just ratchet effects the issue in the worst way possible.
I should say, I'm not trans myself so this is just my perspective as a leftist in solidarity with our trans comrades, but it's like maddening to see capitulation to right wing framing for zero return
It's not like there's a compromise where right wing freaks lay off social transitioning in return or quit screaming about minors transitioning in general. What pisses me off so much is capitulation on the sports issue wins liberals nothing. It doesn't actually protect people, it really just ratchet effects the issue in the worst way possible.
Exactly. And this isn't new, either. We've seen this play out over and over again during the last years. Take a look at puberty blockers, for example - it's not as if a majority of trans kids goes "i want to get on puberty blockers" as their first choice when they want to medically transition, they usually want to go on HRT so they can go through the right puberty at the same time everybody else in their class goes through their puberty. Puberty blockers were a compromise. And now that compromise is a battleground and it's banned in a ton of places already and wherever that is the case they are immediately moving on and escalating. They're banning that trans kids can socially transition in school, starting with sports and then moving on to bathrooms and then to forcing teachers to out trans kids to their parents and then to making it illegal to use their names and pronouns at all. And then they expand all of this to adults. This is always about goosestepping to a point were all medical and social transitioning is illegal.
It's always the same playbook because this is an orchestrated campaign that gets repeated over and over again in every state that gives in to this. We have seen this for years. You can look all of it up on Errin in the Morn who has ceaselessly chronicled this in excruciating detail. With the people we're up against, it's always "give them an inch and they'll take a mile". They are always boiling a frog.
Yep. If we were in a society where that compromise were possible, maybe there might be value in having the conversation and (I use this intentionally) sacrificing the kids who want to play sports for everyone else.
But we live in a world where any capitulation to fascists on these issues simply opens the door to the next precarious group to be persecuted. So like you said, there's no poini in giving an inch.
I sometimes wonder how much of this is liberals believing that they live in the past where their opposition was less "spiritually" fascist (I.e. in the past they did the work to launder their fascism through the filter of liberalism writ large). I don't know - never lived through the 70s and 80s, I've only known the right wing lunatics - but maybe there's some west wing brain going on here ....
I just don't think you could ever have an opposition who would accept peace in exchange for no trans women in sports. The opposition isn't a fan of women voting despite it being codified. The enemy is a death cult, remember. And when it's not a white property owning man who is physically fit and preferably not Irish then it's drama.
I feel confident in any governing body's ability to go on a case by case basis the same way the speed running website can deal with the way that Ocarina of Time on the Chinese console technically has less lag than an N64. I think they're capable of sniffing out bad faith lolcows, YouTubers, and Kick streamers.
I saw the thing about Talarico throwing trans people under the bus last night before going to bed. Surprise surprise his PR team ran cover this morning and Iβve seen nothing but stories glazing him all day. Absolutely disgusting and yet fully expected.
As I said in another thread yesterday, Dems are throwing trans people under the bus now that they perceive them to hurt their electability. I can see trans rights being used as a bargaining chip for them when they control the legislative branch again. Rights will definitely be eroded regardless of whoβs in office the next few years. I canβt express how sick it makes me that the whole trans community is about to get dragged. And yet fucking libs will yell and scream at us to vote blue no matter who. Fucking disgusting rats.
Like Zohran and Abdul examples dems donβt have to do this shoe0nhead crap.
Kowtow and agree with conservatives on everything, claim you should still be voted for on virtue of being βone of the good onesββ¦and then get slimed in elections because youβre still not right wing enough.
Zohran (despite being an electoralist lib) never sold out trans people, and thereβs a huge framing to be had that if trans people getting rights is a dealbreaker for you as a worker getting rights too, you have nothing but first world problems.
EDIT: kinda wrote the rant poorly so fixed the wording
there's severe criticisms of the civic gender clinics he's doing but that's more cowardice and ignorance than a selling out. although it's a little bit selling out because certain people won't be able to get hrt from them.
'Liberals anytime they encounter an actual leftist' - "Clearly this is an opp"
It's not throwing single digits trans people under a bus. It's throwing ALL trans people under a bus by not fighting for their rights just because it's single digits in sports.
https://lemmy.world/post/51714299 - - even more examples of this phenomenon.
Completely unsurprising though π
I love the very concept of democracy being perverted into moralistic consumer-activism
The gymnastics needed to constantly punch left whenever this happens really should cause more injuries to people.
hey dems are still moving right in spite of losing
well yeah it's those not voting for the republican lite candidates that are the issue not the dems movement further right
If its in the SINGLE DIGITS then they should answer with something like "you want to bring a microscope to 5 people out of 350 million? Okay, let's look at multi billionaires and how they effect society compared to those five trans athletes, shall we?"
This shit is so easy its infuriating, they're just evil people. None of this shit is a trick question or some deep morally ambiguity. Fuck.
another banger from the party of "please shut the fuck up about the child genocide i am trying to girlboss over here"
Itβs not just throwing trans people under the bus, itβs the Pavlovian pivot to the right. Further proof that liberalism doesnβt really believe in anything, thereβs no hills it will die on, itβs all machinations for the sake of machinations, no goal theyβre in service of.
there are absolutely hills liberalism will die on. they're committed to the status quo only ever shifting right and will instinctively circle the wagons if something to their left appears
So, they see trans in sports as a small issue.
Thinking for literal five seconds from this premise: if dems can't stand their own ground and capitulate on even a 'small issue', "the dumbest hill ever" as Rebecca puts it, then what hope is left for facing 'big issues'?
Thinking "they'll say what they have to say to gain power, you have to trust them!" and giving that thought not a single grain of reflection. Behold: liberal politics.
Mild strategical posturing
Libs coming up with new ways to say "ostracize and kill people" every day
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"if it endangers safety or fairness" is perfect triangulation to make everyone hate you because it's not phobic enough for the archbigots but it still marginalizes trans women so it's not even a dodge.
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They just can't figure out that anti-trans chuds won't vote for them no matter how much they pander. They also won't vote for Democrats no matter how much they say they love cops and the military and hate illegal immigrants.
If the number of trans athletes is in the single digits then you could say that it is okay to throw them under the bus because who gives a shit. You could also say that if the number of trans athletes is in the single digits then it is a clear indicator of a massive transphobia problem in sports and strategies should be made to make sports more inclusive, not less.
I know which one I prefer.
Oh look, its that thing some of us trans people were fucking SCREAMING at the top of our lungs when some trans people were selling out Palestine for their own fucking skin.
Selling out Palestine *for the illusion of protecting their own fucking skin, at that!
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